maybe i worded that poorly but in my oppinion the stance of not participating in any kind of abuse, violence and suffering brought upon a living beeing has to be morally superior to partaking in any of these.
no matter how human an animal was raised and how pain free its death is. slaughtering an animal is of course always an act of violence.

What if you torture and rape it first?

so edgy, very cool

Please stop raping me you speciesiest

Curious. Do you mean by just being vegan, or something else?

Take a look at some of the cooking threads; he definitely doesn't mean by being vegan. He still thinks he's the arbiter for what entails "true veganism though!

That and the laughable inconsistency where he claims to have helped cows live great lives, then several posts later says it's speciesist of me to think to think I know what's best for them

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jjQhVP...ature=youtu.be

1/3 of vegetarians admitted they eat meat when drunk

I never really understood this. Why do companies make imitation cheese that's non-vegan?

People with lactose intolerance?

Because they can sell it to misguided Species Justice Warriors

It's annoying that vegans latch on to the environmental issue and make the message 'don't eat beef,' when the message should be 'don't eat CAFO beef, eat grass fed beef.'

Could be and those posts about cattle helping reclaim deserts is interesting.

But, what effect does boutique grass fed beef in the US and Europe really have? Supply is so much smaller than demand (for beef in general) that are you mostly just making the prices really high and pushing other demand into CAFO?

In general. Obviously that doesn't apply if you are raising cows on your own property for your own consumption or if you live in Africa in one of those un-desertification project areas.

I'm not really saying it's not better, but is it really sustainable? And if not, is it that much different? So maybe an environmentalist should still consider how many lbs of grass fed beef per year per person is sustainable right now.

Higher demand may cause an increase in price, but that demand will ultimately lead to more producers of grass fed beef. If people start buying grass fed instead of CAFO beef, the CAFO operations will be forced to change their ways. One thing people don't realize is all the feed for these animals in CAFO operations is heavily subsidized by the gov't (corn/soy/barley/oats). So while you might be paying less for CAFO beef at the grocery store, you are paying extra for it in your taxes.

I think vegans have the whole narrative wrong. There is absolutely no way to live and not partake in the killing of living organisms. It is how the ecosystem works. You might think by not eating animal products you aren't involved in the deaths of any animals, but it is simply not true. How about when you clear land for growing crops? So many living things (millions? billions?) are killed in the process from mice to snakes to insects to worms, etc. And the process gets repeated every year when you till the land, plant the crops, fertilize, and harvest.

Should we give more value to the life of a cow vs the life of an insect? 1 whole cow can feed a family for a year. Compare that to how many insects died as a result of your bowl of rice. And compare the nutritional density of the two.

The message shouldn't be 'meat is murder' / 'meat destroys the environment'. The message should be to move from industrial farming to local/small scale/organic/ethical farming. And before someone says that we can't feed the world's population without industrial farming it simply isn't true. The global food system produces ~3,800 calories of food per day for every person on earth. That is nearly twice what is necessary for daily nutrition. Over the past 40 years, food production has grown at a pace 16% faster than the world's population. Hunger is not a problem of food supply, it is a product of poverty.

b_by,

I think people realize crops, especially corn, are heavily subsidized.

Without the de-desertification, is there really enough grassland for enough beef to meet demand? Idk, I guess it's quite a marginal issue for me anyway. I would skip beef before going broke at whole foods or w/e for sure.

What animals are killed and what harm is ok or not is pretty subjective. You can discuss values, but ultimately people are going to have differences. Once you know the values though, you can discuss what is most consistent with them.

My thoughts on sentience lately are that people are barely sentient, cows probably have a kernel of sentience, but insects are not sentient at all. It's all murky, but I think I have more of a problem with killing one cow (and I'm still doing that) than with killing a billion insects.

To make it taste and work like cheese. People like you and HiHo spend $7 on 12 slices of fake cheese and then bitch that it tastes anything like cheese and that the **** crumbles and doesn't melt, even after 5 minutes in the microwave.

Then 6 months later you see some soy cheese in a regular supermarket for less than $3 bucks claiming yada yada and you give it a shot because wgaf, it's $2.79 and maybe **** has come a ways since you last bought it.

**** has a consistency of cheese, melts, and the **** doesn't taste half bad when wedged in your processed, salty **** sandwich you made for lunch. Later, in mild delightful surprise while eating your homemade mac & cheese for dinner, you look at the ingredient list to see wtf could give such a nice orange jizzy texture from fake cheese.

Sandwiched between the soy, sodium phosphate, sodium citrate, carrageenan, titanium dioxide, xanthan gum, glycerin, etc., you see casein. Perhaps you look up carrageenan since all the other **** couldn't possibly be dairy with oxide, phate, trate in the word etc., and once carrageenan comes back fine, you pass on the harmless looking casein and think, "w/e, this seaweed **** makes for some awesome fake cheese" and go back to eating your jizzy mac & cheese oblivious to the fact that you pretty much just ate a ****tier version of Kraft mac & cheese at quadruple the price.

I think that's the reason why.

Incidentally, with all this cheese talk, I just realized that I've been pure vegetarian for like the past 2 weeks.

I haven't found an answer as to whether grass fed beef can replace all the demand for beef, but by increasing consumption of other kinds of meat I'd like to think pastured/free range animals can meet worldwide demand. Especially because multiple crops and animals are suitable to be raised on the same land. For example, this place, http://www.chaffinfamilyorchards.com/ is an olive/fruit orchard that raises cattle and goats as well. Rather than having a guy mow between all the trees to keep the shrubs down from choking out the olive trees, they send in the goats to clear out the shrubbery. After the goats, they send in the cattle to mow down the grass. This system allows the work typically done by humans with fossil fuels (mowing, fertilizing) to be done for free and naturally.

Grass fed beef has inferior flavor in my (limited) experience. It also has an odd smell when being cooked. I don't care for it personally.

It is my understanding that there is a lot of variance in the taste of grass fed. A number of factors are at play, and many ranchers probably aren't aware of them / don't care to bother. IIRC, the timing of when the cattle are slaughtered has a big effect, with the best tasting beef being done after the grass has been at its peak season.

Personally the environmental issue is the only reason I've tried to eat less meat and I think a lot of other people feel the same as me. I think most people are obviously not concerned with what cattle eat nor is it even possible for the majority of Americans to only eat grass fed beef. All of our unoccupied land would be needed for cattle grazing and that might not even be enough room

Amazin,
Keep living that fake vegan lifestyle.

Yup, the scores of AL activists I associate with have no issue with my life style, but some corpse-munching malzoan and his imaginary band of "true vegan" merry men do.

Alrighty then

Amazin,

You know what you are. A vegan of convenience.

Amazin,

I bet your AL activist friends constantly talk smack behind your back for being such a mediocre vegan.