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"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode!

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03-02-2013 , 01:53 PM

#4201

ObezyankaNol

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by atakdog

Obviously, neither is a fragment — and that's the correct way to say it. The verb is singular: "neither are" is correct only if one or both of the things being discussed is plural.

That's not right, and neither are you.

Quote

03-02-2013 , 04:09 PM

#4202

atakdog

addicted

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 50,136

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObezyankaNol

That's not right, and neither are you.

Lol.

The first three links from googling "neither singular or plural" (not counting one from which I got a malware warning):

grammarbook

Quote:

Two singular subjects connected by either/or or neither/nor require a singular verb

languagetips

Quote:

‘Either’ and ‘neither’ are generally singular. There is an exception, however. If the word follows a choice between two or more alternatives, the verb should take the form of the closest alternative. Furthermore, if one alternative is singular and one is plural, it is preferred that you put the plural word last and use a plural verb.

grammar-monster

Quote:

If the pairings either/or or neither/nor form part of the subject of a verb and both elements are singular, then the verb must be singular too.

Quote

03-02-2013 , 04:14 PM

#4203

private joker

Most Definitely

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 25,244

Fantastic.

Quote

03-02-2013 , 04:32 PM

#4204

Rei Ayanami

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by atakdog

Obviously, neither is a fragment — and that's the correct way to say it. The verb is singular: "neither are" is correct only if one or both of the things being discussed is plural.

You win. That was a nested test. Probably less subtle than I hoped it'd be, though. But it is fine colloquially, which is the register I typically favor.

Quote

03-02-2013 , 05:53 PM

#4205

ObezyankaNol

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by atakdog

Lol.

The first three links from googling "neither singular or plural" (not counting one from which I got a malware warning):

Try neither... nor. Might work better.

Quote

03-02-2013 , 10:16 PM

#4206

atakdog

addicted

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 50,136

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObezyankaNol

Try neither... nor. Might work better.

First, it worked fine, because that is the answer; second, the sentence that I was correcting wasn't structured in "neither ... nor" form.

Google doesn't search for sentences, but rather for key words. You can think of it as having been a search for "Neither: singular or plural?" And since it did pull up articles that were on point, your point is... what?

Nice try at deflection, though.

Quote

03-02-2013 , 11:25 PM

#4207

ObezyankaNol

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by atakdog

Well I gave you an example that contradicted your rule, so I don't know what more you want.

Quote

03-03-2013 , 04:04 AM

#4208

Astyanax

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,877

line check for upcoming book (brag). Don't worry about the meaning.

Dedicated to the people who got me there; and to the people who got me here:
D, J, D, S, K, A, T, E and S

Quote

03-03-2013 , 04:18 AM

#4209

JayTeeMe

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 29,419

A semi-colon is illegal there.

"and to the people who got me here" is not a sentence.

Quote

03-03-2013 , 04:31 AM

#4210

Astyanax

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,877

Yeah not independent. FML. It's been sent off already. Not a good start! I'll have to tell Amazon.

Quote

03-03-2013 , 12:48 PM

#4211

ObezyankaNol

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astyanax

line check for upcoming book (brag). Don't worry about the meaning.

Dedicated to the people who got me there; and to the people who got me here:
D, J, D, S, K, A, T, E and S

Sounds like "here" refers to "D, J, D, S, K, A, T, E and S." To me anyway.

Quote

03-04-2013 , 12:22 AM

#4212

DucoGranger

adept

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 762

Who is DJ DSkates? Sounds like something some old guy, who plays oldies songs at a roller rink, would call himself.

I've got a style question for you. I'm torn between how I should suggest as student write a sentence.

Quote:

The Chinese Govt. should introduce some environmental laws to reduce the increase of pollution.

Quote:

The Chinese Govt. should introduce some environmental laws to reduce increasing pollution.

I'm trying to teach these kids to be simple and direct so with that I am partial towards #2. But it doesn't sound entirely pristine to me as #1 does. What do you guys think?

Quote

03-04-2013 , 12:27 AM

#4213

atakdog

addicted

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 50,136

It depends on what you want it to say. They have different meanings.

(One reduces the rate of increase, the other reduces the amount [which is increasing].)

Also, if you do the first one it should be "the increase in pollution". And there are other errors.

And is there anything wrong with "The Chinese government should introduce environmental laws to reduce pollution"?

Quote

03-04-2013 , 12:50 AM

#4214

Brian O'Nolan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,499

^

Why are you abbreviating "government"? Please don't teach that to your students.

In terms of simplicity, I don't think "environmental" is necessary either. Laws dealing with pollution are necessarily environmental, no?

Quote

03-04-2013 , 01:07 AM

#4215

DucoGranger

adept

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 762

Quote:

Originally Posted by atakdog

And is there anything wrong with "The Chinese government should introduce environmental laws to reduce pollution"?

Techincaly, no. But I do think the "increase" part was used by the student to emphasise the state it's in right now, cuz it's pretty bad over here.

Quote:

Also, if you do the first one it should be "the increase in pollution". And there are other errors.

Not according to my style source:

Quote:

(i) of a certain amount

(ii) of something that has grown larger

(iii) in something used as means of measurement, e.g. size, temperature, etc.

(iv) in something being measured statistically

(v) from a lower amount to a higher amount

(vi) over or on an earlier amount or the period when that earlier amount was calculated

(c) A Valency Dictionary of English (2004)

Quote:

Why are you abbreviating "government"? Please don't teach that to your students.

I wrote Govt. cuz I'm lazy. No, I'm not teaching them that here (nor cuz).

As far as nixing "environmental" I like clarity too, and that's the balance that needs to be made sometimes, clarity for simplicity. I mean, can there be non-environmental laws that can be made to reduce pollution?

Last edited by DucoGranger; 03-04-2013 at 01:20 AM.

Quote

03-04-2013 , 02:13 AM

#4216

garcia1001

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,500

It's "increase in pollution" I think. Yuo should use a more correct style guide

Quote

03-04-2013 , 03:40 AM

#4217

Astyanax

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,877

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObezyankaNol

Sounds like "here" refers to "D, J, D, S, K, A, T, E and S." To me anyway.

So does that mean it's ok? Yes, the here refers to these people although it's slightly ambiguous which was intentional. I'd need a page to explain it and I cba.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucoGranger

Who is DJ DSkates? Sounds like something some old guy, who plays oldies songs at a roller rink, would call himself

Initials of some important people. If one of you lot gets hold of the book, this thread will double in size

Quote

03-04-2013 , 05:22 AM

#4218

JayTeeMe

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 29,419

I think we need to use different wording. "Reduce increasing pollution" is very clumsy. Can we say something like "curtail increasing pollution"??

Quote

03-04-2013 , 08:31 PM

#4219

New Kid

adept

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 750

Whatcha doin'?

Oh, not much, just introducin' some laws.

Quote

03-04-2013 , 10:30 PM

#4220

ObezyankaNol

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucoGranger

As far as nixing "environmental" I like clarity too, and that's the balance that needs to be made sometimes, clarity for simplicity. I mean, can there be non-environmental laws that can be made to reduce pollution?

There are environmental laws that wreck the economy, so why not?

Quote

03-05-2013 , 01:21 AM

#4221

DucoGranger

adept

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 762

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObezyankaNol

There are environmental laws that wreck the economy, so why not?

Wait, so when did this become "Politics Nits"?

Quote

03-05-2013 , 02:30 AM

#4222

ObezyankaNol

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by DucoGranger

Wait, so when did this become "Politics Nits"?

Grammar is the continuation of politics by other means.

Quote

03-05-2013 , 07:17 AM

#4223

Newff

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 5,137

My spelling is usually good but my puncuation needs work. What are some good sites to teach myself better puncuation from home?

Quote

03-05-2013 , 02:01 PM

#4224

private joker

Most Definitely

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 25,244

Quote

03-06-2013 , 11:42 PM

#4225

There Is A Light

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,923

Does this sentence make sense? I'm completely brain farting tonight and forgetting how to construct a sentence:

Each sub-topic will include completely self-contained information, meaning that users will not be obligated to take the course in any particular order.

Quote

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