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"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! "Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode!

07-04-2012 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
Does it irk anyone else when, reciting a phone number, people say "oh" (a letter) instead of "zero" (a number)?
No. Just you.

What's James Bond's number?

Sometimes the sound pronounced "oh" is actually an abbreviation for zero. Context rules and the meaning is virtually always clear.

Obviously they are two different typed characters. In handwriting, if the context would allow either a letter or number then you must put a slash through the character to indicate the numeral.

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 07-04-2012 at 05:29 PM.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
Does it irk anyone else when, reciting a phone number, people say "oh" (a letter) instead of "zero" (a number)?
Slightly, but I'm used to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikech
pretty sure no one fluent in english actually thinks "oh" is a number; it's just easier/faster to say. since it does irk you, do you say "nineteen-hundred and seven" when referring to the year 1907?
"Nineteen aught seven."
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikech
pretty sure no one fluent in english actually thinks "oh" is a number; it's just easier/faster to say. since it does irk you, do you say "nineteen-hundred and seven" when referring to the year 1907?
No I don't, but I'm not listing the individual numbers 1 9 0 7, I'm sounding out the year as one unit. With phone numbers also I find it acceptable to group numbers together, as in 012 (zero one two) 2030 (twenty thirty) but when voicing the individual numbers I would never say O instead of zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
No. Just you.

What's James Bond's number?

Sometimes the sound pronounced "oh" is actually an abbreviation for zero. Context rules and the meaning is virtually always clear.

Obviously they are two different typed characters. In handwriting, if the context would allow either a letter or number then you must put a slash through the character to indicate the numeral.
In every James Bond movie I've watched, 007 opens (and sometimes closes) with some ridiculous physics-defying, death-defying stunt. Yet he still doesn't have the power to make O a number.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
No I don't, but I'm not listing the individual numbers 1 9 0 7, I'm sounding out the year as one unit. With phone numbers also I find it acceptable to group numbers together, as in 012 (zero one two) 2030 (twenty thirty) but when voicing the individual numbers I would never say O instead of zero.
When it comes to spoken communication there's a lot to be said for shaving a syllable off of a common word (not that "zero" is common for everyone, but some jobs involve rattling off numbers all day). No big deal for one's personal preference be to say the whole word, but to be annoyed at those who don't seems exceptionally silly.

Do you avoid contractions when speaking also?
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan42
When it comes to spoken communication there's a lot to be said for shaving a syllable off of a common word (not that "zero" is common for everyone, but some jobs involve rattling off numbers all day). No big deal for one's personal preference be to say the whole word, but to be annoyed at those who don't seems exceptionally silly.

Do you avoid contractions when speaking also?
No, I have no problems with contractions. But I also don't substitute shortcuts for whole words simply for brevity. Maybe we should limit our vocabulary to words of, say, 5 letters? Who needs polysyllabic words? They're way too long and too difficult to pronounce!

(I really thought the 0 vs. O issue would be a pet peeve of people in a grammar forum. Based on the resistance I'm receiving, I must be wrong.)
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 03:33 PM
I think it has to do with the usefulness of the abbreviation. When someone says they're "going on vacay," I think it's ******ed and cringeworthy, since how often do you use that word? Shortening "zero" saves you a lot of syllables over a lifetime.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
No I don't, but I'm not listing the individual numbers 1 9 0 7, I'm sounding out the year as one unit.
i'm unsure what this means. which would you say: "nineteen-oh-seven," "nineteen-hundred-and-seven," "nineteen-zero-seven," or, as an above poster suggested, "nineteen-aught-seven"?

Quote:
In every James Bond movie I've watched, 007 opens (and sometimes closes) with some ridiculous physics-defying, death-defying stunt. Yet he still doesn't have the power to make O a number.
you haven't answered his question. how would you vocalize james bond's code name: zero-zero-seven? double-zero-seven?
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 07:30 PM
It depends on what one's used to hearing in the given context. (I'll just hyphenate all numbers.)

Phone numbers: "seven-zero-five" or "seven-oh-five" (both sound okay to me)

Police and Military: "five-oh went loco on Tony Romo in SoHo—let's watch the footage in slow-mo" or "meet me at oh-eight-hundred and drop down and cook me twenty pancakes"

Years: "nineteen-oh-seven"

James Bond: "double-oh-seven"

Nearly all other numbers: "the sequence is five-six-zero-zero-zero-two-zero-zero-zero" / "the combination is zero-zero-seven" / "Maury, I counted—he cheated on me nineteen-hunnernen-seven times"

Reasons for choosing oh over zero clearly existed, but many of those reasons are probably vestigial now.

Last edited by ToTheInternet; 07-05-2012 at 07:45 PM.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikech
i'm unsure what this means. which would you say: "nineteen-oh-seven," "nineteen-hundred-and-seven," "nineteen-zero-seven," or, as an above poster suggested, "nineteen-aught-seven"?


you haven't answered his question. how would you vocalize james bond's code name: zero-zero-seven? double-zero-seven?
"Nineteen-oh-Seven". Here 1907 is one unit (I wouldn't call it a 'word'), but if sounding out the individual digits then definitely "one nine zero seven".

"Double Oh seven", but that is a name, and you can call someone whatever name you like, but it doesn't prove that O is a number.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
"Double Oh seven", but that is a name, and you can call someone whatever name you like, but it doesn't prove that O is a number.
LOL, you are grasping at straws. It's his secret agent number, 007 and it does not contain an "O" at all, it contains two "0"s. The homonym pronounced "oh" is still a 0.

The 00 (pronounced "double oh") designation means a license to kill in the fictional world Bond inhabits, and the third digit is his identifier.

The only time it's not appropriate to use the shortened "oh" form for speaking zero is when reciting an abstract numeric sequence or an alphanumeric sequence, because of ambiguity. That's undoubtedly the one that originally annoyed you and it's wrong, but in all other contexts I can think of the meaning is always clear.

TTI has a good post above.

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 07-05-2012 at 08:43 PM.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
LOL, you are grasping at straws. It's his secret agent number, 007 and it does not contain an "O" at all, it contains two "0"s. The homonym pronounced "oh" is still a 0.

The 00 (pronounced "double oh") designation means a license to kill in the fictional world Bond inhabits, and the third digit is his identifier.

The only time it's not appropriate to use the shortened "oh" form for speaking zero is when reciting an abstract numeric sequence or an alphanumeric sequence, because of ambiguity. That's undoubtedly the one that originally annoyed you and it's wrong, but in all other contexts I can think of the meaning is always clear.

TTI has a good post above.
Your post is worthy of a LOL. I know 007 is considered a number in the fictional Bond series, I thought it was obvious that I know it. My point is, the Bond reference is useless as any kind of proof; calling him 007 doesn't make O a number just like the ridiculously unrealistic stunts he performs in each movie are not indicative of real physics.

Bottom line is, using O in place of zero irks me, and I thought it would irk the grammar nits here, too. Supplying all the proof in the world of how O is used as a number just demonstrates how widespread the misuse of O is, only shows how bad the problem is, and doesn't serve to justify it.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
Bottom line is, using O in place of zero irks me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
"Nineteen-oh-Seven".
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 09:39 PM
Do you use Zed or Zee? Here in Canada its 98% Zed. When I here Zee it sounds very American.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
Your post is worthy of a LOL. I know 007 is considered a number in the fictional Bond series, I thought it was obvious that I know it. My point is, the Bond reference is useless as any kind of proof; calling him 007 doesn't make O a number just like the ridiculously unrealistic stunts he performs in each movie are not indicative of real physics.

Bottom line is, using O in place of zero irks me, and I thought it would irk the grammar nits here, too. Supplying all the proof in the world of how O is used as a number just demonstrates how widespread the misuse of O is, only shows how bad the problem is, and doesn't serve to justify it.
Not sure what's l0lworthy about it. Also, check this page out.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheInternet
l0lworthy
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-05-2012 , 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
Bottom line is, using O in place of zero
Your continued mistake is in thinking that anyone is doing that. They aren't. Nobody is saying (or writing) the letter "O" when they mean zero. They are saying the sound at the end of the word "zero" as a spoken abbreviation, and what they are saying can be written as "0" but it should never be written as "O". You are the one making a mistake every time you write it that way.

Quote:
Supplying all the proof in the world of how O is used as a number
No one except you has claimed any such thing in this thread. The letter "O" is never used as a number.


But carry on as you wish, I won't be responding to you again.

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 07-05-2012 at 10:02 PM.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 12:00 PM
This oh-zero discussion is the worst thing ever to happen to this thread. Someone ask something about punctuation so we can climb out of the abyss.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker
This oh-zero discussion is the worst thing ever to happen to this thread. Someone ask something about punctuation so we can climb out of the abyss.
Wouldn't it be better to say "worst thing to ever"...?
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvitlekh
Your post is worthy of a LOL. I know 007 is considered a number in the fictional Bond series, I thought it was obvious that I know it. My point is, the Bond reference is useless as any kind of proof; calling him 007 doesn't make O a number just like the ridiculously unrealistic stunts he performs in each movie are not indicative of real physics.

Bottom line is, using O in place of zero irks me, and I thought it would irk the grammar nits here, too. Supplying all the proof in the world of how O is used as a number just demonstrates how widespread the misuse of O is, only shows how bad the problem is, and doesn't serve to justify it.
It doesn't irk the grammar nits here because it's not a grammar issue. It's a personal negative reaction to a widely accepted (and acceptable) usage. I have plenty of those myself, but I don't ascribe my annoyance to the rest of the world being wrong.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 02:11 PM
Apologies for prolonging the argument, but.. .

I say zero because when I saw oh it can sound like four. Though if you're saying zero you might as well say zilch, zip or nada.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Poor
when I say oh it can sound like four.
Oh. You grew up, I take it, in Alabama, Georgia, or Mississippi?

As in, "Fo mo yeahs, you heah!"
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Poor
Apologies for prolonging the argument, but.. .

I say zero because when I saw oh it can sound like four. Though if you're saying zero you might as well say zilch, zip or nada.
That's what I do. I say my zipcode is seven-zilch-nada-zip-five.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ
Wouldn't it be better to say "worst thing to ever"...?
If you want to get started on a discussion of split infinitives...

Last edited by private joker; 07-06-2012 at 07:00 PM. Reason: which is definitely better than the oh-zero crap
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 07:38 PM
You're welcome.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
07-06-2012 , 08:58 PM
The oh/zero discussion, or the oh-zero discussion?
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