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"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! "Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode!

04-17-2012 , 10:20 AM
I think that clarity, flow, and conciseness are more important than, like, some fiddly rule.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
I agree you wouldn't use the comparative with 3 or more things.
I know more about this than all of you punks.

Seems fine to me. Have I misunderstood?
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by garcia1000
I think that clarity, flow, and conciseness are more important than, like, some fiddly rule.
The use of "like" as a discourse particle in writing always reminds me of this.

edit: other Trickily Embedded stuff (four links).

Last edited by ToTheInternet; 04-17-2012 at 02:31 PM.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellinToronto
An interesting one. "All" takes a plural verb, but is that the subject here? I would say "that" is the subject.
I thought "that remains" is a relative clause modifying "all".
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Cyphre
I thought "that remains" is a relative clause modifying "all".
You may be right, but I'll still defend the use of "all that remains" as idiomatic. I notice that the author of the recently cited Miriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage writes, "All that remains to be said is..." (959). Surely no one would write "All that remain to be said".
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
I don't believe the relaxation of the superlative rule is a corruption. I think it's an elementary school rule teachers use to make things simple for kids but one that proficient adult writers don't need. I agree you wouldn't use the comparative with 3 or more things. But you can use the superlative with two.

It's sort of like the obsolete rule about beginning sentences with conjunctions, which working writers dropped decades ago (but is still taught to kids to keep them from writing run-on sentences). I can find as many citations that consider the superlative rule pedantic and overly formal as you can find supporting it. And some grammar guides state that the superlative can be used when comparing "two or more" things.

Edit: here's one discussion of how grammarians came to use this rule.
Thanks for this posting, especially for the link to Miriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, which seems to be mostly available online for free. One could (or at least a grammar nit could) spend many a profitable hour reading around in that wonderful compendium of language wisdom and common sense (and amusing persnicketiness).
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
I don't believe the relaxation of the superlative rule is a corruption. I think it's an elementary school rule teachers use to make things simple for kids but one that proficient adult writers don't need. I agree you wouldn't use the comparative with 3 or more things. But you can use the superlative with two.

It's sort of like the obsolete rule about beginning sentences with conjunctions, which working writers dropped decades ago (but is still taught to kids to keep them from writing run-on sentences). I can find as many citations that consider the superlative rule pedantic and overly formal as you can find supporting it. And some grammar guides state that the superlative can be used when comparing "two or more" things.

That said, your position on it is valid and justifiable, I just disagree.


Edit: here's one discussion of how grammarians came to use this rule.
Touche. And cool link.

It's just something that's tilted me forever. It's like the OP's use of "literally" in the title. It's technically correct because "literally" has been corrupted to the point that it's lost all its meaning. One can use "literally" in any sentence and it would technically be correct.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 10:39 PM
"your head will literally explode" is technically correct?
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshanti
It's like the OP's use of "literally" in the title. It's technically correct because "literally" has been corrupted to the point that it's lost all its meaning. One can use "literally" in any sentence and it would technically be correct.
No it wouldn't. Lots of misuse doesn't make it correct.
"Grammar" and "Punctuation" nit's unite! You're "head" will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikech
"your head will literally explode" is technically correct?
Yes.

From m-w.com:

Quote:
Definition of LITERALLY
2: in effect : virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice — Norman Cousins>

Usage Discussion of LITERALLY
Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary.
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-17-2012 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
No it wouldn't. Lots of misuse doesn't make it correct.
It does when all that misuse adds a new definition over time.
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshanti
Definition of LITERALLY
2: in effect : virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice — Norman Cousins>

Usage Discussion of LITERALLY
Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary.
Source?
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellinToronto
Source?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 04:51 AM
Even your own source doesn't really support the claim that it is "technically correct": if it is "pure hyperbole", then apparently the technical meaning remains, shockingly enough, what most of us are arguing that it is.

Your argument is that it is acceptable because it is accepted because it is common. Those claims may be true (though some of us disagree with the first one, and clearly the second isn't universally corect), but even assuming arguendo that they are, they don't get us to "technically correct".
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 06:53 AM
Hopefully this will clear things up.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...y.html?hpid=z5
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 08:56 AM
While it is true that words take on new meanings and usage over time which sometimes become accepted as standard, people who use the hyperbolic "literally" in the opposite sense of its traditional meaning are literally dumbasses. And I'm using the standard meaning.
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 08:58 AM
They are unintelligent donkeys?
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duerig
They are unintelligent donkeys?
literally
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atakdog
Even your own source doesn't really support the claim that it is "technically correct": if it is "pure hyperbole", then apparently the technical meaning remains, shockingly enough, what most of us are arguing that it is.

Your argument is that it is acceptable because it is accepted because it is common. Those claims may be true (though some of us disagree with the first one, and clearly the second isn't universally corect), but even assuming arguendo that they are, they don't get us to "technically correct".
Yeah, it does. "Literally" means actual or figurative: it has no meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
While it is true that words take on new meanings and usage over time which sometimes become accepted as standard, people who use the hyperbolic "literally" in the opposite sense of its traditional meaning are literally dumbasses. And I'm using the standard meaning.
It's in the dictionary; what else can I say?

It's like the word "decimated" (as another poster mentioned). "Decimated" used to mean one thing, now it means obliterated as well, through misuse. And it tilts the *** out of me to hear it used that way.
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 11:32 AM
meshanit is right, like, always
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-18-2012 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshanti
It's in the dictionary; what else can I say?
Dictionaries are sometimes more descriptive than prescriptive. They are telling you what lots of people are saying, but not necessarily that they are saying it correctly. For that I would refer to contemporary usage guides and style guides.

Here's a humorous collection of quotes which demonstrates that, at the very least, the hyperbolic "literally" should be used with extreme care.

http://literally.barelyfitz.com/

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 04-18-2012 at 01:03 PM.
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-19-2012 , 08:28 PM


lol this has been making the facebook rounds today
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-19-2012 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by schu_22


lol this has been making the facebook rounds today
.
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-19-2012 , 08:58 PM
I don't see the big deal; so they forgot the semi-colon after "gifts." Stop the presses!
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote
04-19-2012 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagdonk
I don't see the big deal; so they forgot the semi-colon after "gifts."
nice
&quot;Grammar&quot; and &quot;Punctuation&quot; nit's unite! You're &quot;head&quot; will literally explode! Quote

      
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