I do this sometimes, but they'll rarely ever take the initiative to text first. Often they just respond with their #, some times they'll just ignore and keep chatting through the site/app. Kinda weird b/c I never even offer my # unless a date's already set up.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Most women I met through online dating claimed to have dozens of options, but hardly any that were worth pursuing.

Of course, the reverse is also true. Guys probably have less options (in terms of girls who message them first), but ime hardly any are worth following up.

The problem with online dating is the appearance of a ton of options so even if the guy you're with is good, there is probably someone better. Some women are looking for their Prince Charming and are always disappointed with any small flaw in a guy they see. Don't get me wrong, there are likely many guys who aren't worth perusing but people who online date are always looking for the next and hopefully better fish.

You could also look at online dating as a positive in that you can churn through a ton of dates in a matter of a month or 2 and have a pretty good idea of your dating value.

In this thread we've had a bunch of guys (myself included) who have been all excited about online dating ready to go on 2-3 dates a week, and they're already burnt out after a month or 2. At that point it's like "meh I've been on 15 dates recently, I'm tired of the grind and just ready to find someone".

If you've had 20 first dates in the past year, and you meet a great girl who seems like the best fit, you aren't really left wondering if there's someone better out there b/c you already know from the last 20 what you could roughly expect.

+1

I've been with my gf for seven months, we're really tight and I'm pretty happy.

I used to post in this thread. I went on maybe 120 first dates over 2.5 years.

Lol, back in my twenties, I never would have dreamed I'd have to force myself to go on a date, but that's how it gets.

You churn so many meets that go nowhere, it's like, "Ugh, I really don't feel up to this tonight."

I'd take breaks, but I'd always come back like a lab rat to the cocaine lever.

I have a couple friends from it, a few women I met I had multiple dates with, and I got laid a number of times so nothing negative to say about online dating.

It does get to be a grind though.

My date's roommate's car broke down 45 minutes before we were supposed to meet.

And they don't have Uber where she lives?

Excellent excuse

Beats the ghost job I got, and sadly, expected.

But at least you got to see her boobies!

This is something you will never get some people to admit, the convenience of Internet dating has screwed up the social norms.

Many women used to go on bad dates, gave the man another chance and ended up in a good relationship because it was harder to meet eligible partners.

But now,she doesn't have to be more forgiving ,she just goes to the next text.

Before she knows it she's a bitter 40 year old that didn't have a mature relationship, just a series of flings.

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Ahh ok, so that's why the divorce rate in '16 was the lowest in 40 years and dropped for the 3rd year in a row and marriage rates up.

FK, source? I've seen stats to the contrary.

Divorce Rate 40 Year Low

There's also this Divorce up for olds, down for youngs, which doesn't fit the narrative either.

Why bother entering any form of debate with a person who doesn't know how to turn off the Tapatalk default sig?

Trump much?

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My gut told me divorce rates fell because marriage rates fell first. Thought it would take some doing to find, but it's right there in your first cite:


Between 2000 and 2009, the share of young adults ages 25 to 34 who are married dropped 10 percentage points, from 55 percent to 45 percent

Marriage is way down for youngs. It would follow that divorce is down also.

Again from your first cite. The actual divorce rate has been steady for a long time. Continuing:

Which I believe would account for the rising rate among olds i.e. boomers.

Personally I think marriage is surviving on culture lag and will continue to diminish as a percentage of the population over time.

The divorce rate doesn't apply to how a person decides who to date, only on the results of marriage.



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People date because it's fundamentally more fulfilling to be in a relationship with someone.

But, religious pressure to get and stay married has dropped significantly.

For women, economic pressure has as well.

So yeah. Women in particular can be a lot more picky than they used to be. Combine the financial freedom with the vast number of options available with online dating... there you go.

I think the two are related. Marriage now is from choice.

And it still fails like crazy.

Both parties can be, and are, more selfish. Less willing to make the sacrifices that marriage demands.

Ok, I could be totally off here, but I want to propose a reason for some of the flakiness I've read about in this thread. It's basically from a single main observation. That is, the standard advice I've seen when browsing this thread is along the lines of - schedule the first date with the girl as soon as possible. Don't text too much, they'll lose interest, ect. Now that is probably true and it probably results in more dates overall, but it could also result in more flakes. I think there are girls who might have some interest, but when a guy begins applying that pressure (and it seems like that's kind of the MO here), girl may become hesitant and not know exactly how to express the hesitation. I'm psychoanalyzing quite a bit now, but a girl may still be interested while also hesitant and by the time that scheduled meeting with you (the guy) comes, and hesitation and uncertainty is appropriately high, the safer option is to not meet at all. At this point, and because they didn't want to lose the opportunity, there's no real way to let you know they want to bail without, well, bailing.

I posit that instead of using a general 'get the girl out on a date fast' schema for every girl, it be better to carefully pay attention to signals about what kind of response the girl is having to you, and mold your decisions off that. Doesn't mean be completely at the whim of her apparent interest, but adjust when necessary. When I've had (admittedly limited) success forming meaningful connection with a girl, it hasn't felt like any rush was on. Sure I advocated for my own desires, but I feel in some of the posts I've read there's some sense of self-imposed pressure to meet certain benchmarks that have to be met to have a successful date or successful interaction or begin to successfully build a relationship arc. Those benchmarks could be useful as reference points, but it might be more helpful to take each situation more case-by-case. I mean all of this less as advice and more as an observation and some musing.


The tendency described above of putting pressure on oneself is one I'm also guilty of committing, a lot! I often feel pressure that plans *need* to be made with someone or else... really I'm not sure. I'm going to lose them or something? Like this is my only chance to spend time with them? It's true, people have options and those options may overcome any interest for you they might have at the time. But forcing the issue because of this potential risk I think can do more harm than good. This is especially because in these early dating cases the guy knows equally little about the girl, and not enough to know he needs to go all out to win her favor.

Being flaked on, ignored, "ghosted" is one of my pet peeves, not just for dating situations like these, but in life in general. And I understand people often have a lot going on and they can't always get back to you or they have to prioritize, ect. I just find it as such disrespect. I also consider context of the situation it happens in, because sometimes a response or a reply is not really warranted, whereas other times it's like pretending that person doesn't exist. I'm currently in a weird situation where someone isn't responding to my texts and it's bothering me a lot, and I'm having a hard time not sending more texts, ones that are civil but warrant a response. It feels like, and has for some time, that they were pulling away from our interaction, I could tell right away when they began distancing themself. This was an ex who we ended very bumpy and then rekindled communication. After about 6-7 weeks of constant daily communication I noticed a shift and I commented on that fact and that didn't go over well, so all ceased. Without including too much detail, she initiated communication again but it was mostly in that same distanced tone as before, and then soon after she disappeared. At first it would be over a weekend (3-4 days) where I'd hear nothing until a return of "sorry, thought I responded... *weak non-descript reply*". Then it became "I'm really busy". Then it became silence for weeks to straight up questions. Pretty obvious isn't it?

Then all of a sudden I ask her to go bowling one Saturday out of the blue and she responds, but only to the bowling question, all other remained unanswered. She seems to half-heartedly reply to the 3-4 unanswered messages I sent saying she's been traveling for work (like that prevents you from any response or at least prior mentiom). She has plans so can't go bowling but thanks me (I get the sense it's patronizing). I follow up with a question, no response for 2 weeks. Why did she even respond in the first place?

Any random person I'd shrug this off, but I have history with this person and I wanted to keep them in my life someway. It's clear they don't wish the same for me, but to disappear so blatantly, I feel disrespected and frankly pissed. I'm cinflicted and can't seem to move forward. I'm in the mindset that I want to keep messaging her (civilly obviously, and without pointing out the obvious, about how I'd prefer my communications be acknowledged). I almost feel at this point I want to troll her, but troll with kindness. Is there a way someone could convince me otherwise? Logically, continuing to reach out serves little purpose, but I feel so wrong about how this person just stopped talking. I get that there are reasons she wouldn't want to outright reject me, maybe for fear of my reaction or because she doesn't want to fully reject me/wants to keep me around but just not now. At the same time I think by saying nothing they are in itself fully rejecting me, maybe moreso, in a way I find exceedingly disrespectful. Makes me want to say screw that person, they're not worth my time. But that's where the internal conflict comes in. I say screw them, but then the next moment I feel their silence hit me and it feels so wrong. I feel their silence and I imagine how that silence will continue to feel and my mind starts working at a way to reopen the communication. I spend so much time just thinking about what I could say to reopen the communication. Whatever I say would be piled on top of all the other things that have gone without any reply. If she really has no care to hear from me, she could just block my number, and whatever I continue to come up with won't even reach her at all.

You're overthinking it. Women are flakey when it comes to dating as they have dozens of options, with several more arriving each day. I doubt it's anything more complex than that.

I was never in the camp of 2-3 messages>get number>set up date. My current gf took 2-3 weeks of messaging. However, the longer you leave it, the greater the chance that a better option or some other life even will screw things up. However much messaging has gone on before the date, it's all out of the window within 10 seconds of meeting anyway.

Wrt your ex, just cut her loose. Having an ex as a friend is never a good thing for future girlfriends, and it sounds like she just enjoys the attention occasionally. You'd be far better spending your time and energy on new relationships.

2-3 messages is aggressive to ask for a date. But I've been told when I was dating that I took to long by a few girls to ask and I still went on a number of dates I shouldn't have sometimes by girls who would immediately ask me out.

To wildcat, yeah not sure what to do in your situation but I would first stop overthinking and overanalyzing it. That'd why I advocate keeping up numbers so you can't overly focus on one girl but it seems like you were more serious than that. Take it as she's sent you signals and maybe she doesn't want to fully end it but dangles you because you're willing to put up with that ****. Personally, I wouldn't because I'd rather be with someone who really wants to be with me.

"Walk on, walk on. Don't look back, don't ask questions, don't you try to understand"

I used to have that leak. Now I'm pickier about making sure there's actually some flow to the conversation and interest on her end. Asking out on the first message I think is definitely a mistake even on apps where you've matched.

I still think asking after 3-5 messages and decent responses on her end is best. I don't think it's bad to text more if the girl is responding. Not sure it cuts down on the flakiness though. They have options and if you say one thing they're not into pre-date or they don't feel in a high energy state come game time they can just drop you.

I am starting to like Friday/Saturday night as a first date option because if I get flaked on or the date goes poorly I have backup plans and could have just as fun a night. Met a hot new server/bartender at my regular bar who also has a JD (lol law school) and had a good night hanging with friends.