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Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace

07-17-2014 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34TheTruth34
wow i never thought id see anything worse than those boston marathon pics but clearly i was wrong.
ugh.

wifer just came out and asked why I was making a face... ****
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffle
Thought I saw 20-something from the U.S. on a report earlier, but that was probably unofficial.
politically, it will probably matter.

after watching that video...ugh. they're humans.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:20 PM
Confirmed surface to air missile according to the NYT:

Quote:
U.S. officials confirmed that a surface-to-air missile shot down the Malaysian airliner at about 30,000 feet based on a partial track of the missile’s final trajectory showing impact with the airliner.
The track was obtained through infra-red sensors on a military spy satellite orbiting the earth, senior US officials said. The satellite, however, was able to detect only the final partial track, not the point of origin.
I wonder how not possible it is not to detect the origin with the final partial track. Seems like they could extrapolate possible locations from it, but I don't know anything about these kinds of ballistics.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darO
Revoke all Malaysian pilot licences
or maybe get actual pilots to fly, and not stuffed animals.

rip pilot parker never forget <3

Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:29 PM
CNN.com failing to properly clickbaitify the titles related to this tragedy. Their guy must have the week off.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylertwo
It seems very fishy to me that pro-Russian rebels have been supplied with sophisticated missiles capable of bringing down a target at 33,000 feet and major airlines that knew they had this technology kept flying over them until this happens.
Some reports say that the weapons were probably stolen during the war in Ukraine and not 'supplied'. I doubt it will really make any difference if there's Americans in the last 47 unidentified. Im hoping there is none for the USA as it will be a hell of a national debate.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfg
Well we've all heard the reports that Russia is distributing military equipment to various rebels they don't control or know very well. That is still a very long shot from distributing equipment that could cause this to pure idiots, but I wouldn't be surprised.
It is understandable -- even president McCain did this with Syrian rebels.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:45 PM
from news articles, retired military officers seem to think it was done by professional (russian) soldiers from one of these.


requires a crew of 4 trained personnel to operate.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niss
According to AP:
[quote]
Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Federal Aviation Administration had warned U.S. pilots earlier this year not to fly over portions of the Ukraine in the Crimea region, according to notices posted on the agency's website.
[quote]

or like (from Failure is your Friend) the space shuttle challenger accident
Quote:
McDONALD: I knew who that responsible Thiokol official was. That was me, that was my job, that was my responsibility. That’s where I was at. I did the smartest thing I ever did in my entire lifetime – and that was I refused to sign the launch recommendation. As a result of that my boss had to sign it and send it down to me.
DUBNER: Which he did — by fax machine. As the engineers were waiting for the fax, McDonald spoke up again:
MCDONALD: So then I got more frustrated. I says, well let me tell you something. I certainly hope nothing happens tomorrow but if it does I’m not going to be the person to stand before a board of inquiry and explain why I gave you permission to fly these solid-rocket motors in a condition that I knew they were never qualified to do.
"Told you so, neener neener neener"
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:51 PM
Quote:
The Federal Aviation Administration had warned U.S. pilots earlier this year not to fly over portions of the Ukraine in the Crimea region
it wasn't flying over crimea, guys.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakmelk
Some reports say that the weapons were probably stolen during the war in Ukraine and not 'supplied'. I doubt it will really make any difference if there's Americans in the last 47 unidentified. Im hoping there is none for the USA as it will be a hell of a national debate.
Perhaps, but extensive technical training necessary to operate these types of weapons is also required. (These aren't hand held.) I'm not completely up on the latest "Janes" military tech, but the early reports in the news were also about Russian nationals targeting cargo planes. If this is true, carriers were flying through a war zone regularly with standard passenger jets.

(I actually don't believe this was "insurgents", I think this is more likely to be a military "mistake" IMO. If various locals in whatever part of the world have the tech to shoot down something at 33,000 feet, we have very serious problems in the future.)
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:58 PM
According to Le Monde (which is as serious/reliable as it gets with newspapers in French), they got in touch with a military specialist from Airbus and long story short

1) It was impossible to mistake the MA flight with an UKR cargo, private/military jet or whatever else. (Not gonna get into specifics)

2) Random unexperimented UKR rebels shouldn't be able to operate this kind of hardware. Has to be an "official, organized army" behind it.

Which brings me to the following thoughts

- Why the **** would anyone in this region WANT to take down a neutral, civilian airliner
- Regarding the "official, organized army" thing, well, if somehow this can be linked to farther than just some rebels but all the way to Moscow, **** is gonna seriously hit the fan.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:01 PM
probably was some russian soldiers (w/ the serious hardware shown above) instructed to shoot down any ukrainian cargo plane they could spot, and they mistook this passenger plane for one.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
from news articles, retired military officers seem to think it was done by professional (russian) soldiers from one of these.


requires a crew of 4 trained personnel to operate.
I was trained to operate this system (BUK M1 or S11 Gadfly) in any of the 4 positions. Ask me stuff if you're interested.

BTW what you're seeing in the pic is one of the vehicles that does not have a radar. They can only launch stuff as a "slave" of the radar vehicle. If the rebels had only this one in the pic, they couldn't do anything.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:06 PM
I wouldn't think the bodies could still be in tact after being hit by a missile and falling 30k feet from the sky.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:08 PM
yeah I just googled "buk missle system" and got that pic.

would a buk be able to differentiate between a civilian airliner and military cargo plane for the crew?
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
would a buk be able to differentiate between a civilian airliner and military cargo plane for the crew?
It would be just a green dot on the radar, so not really. It depends if we are talking about a full battalion or just a single vehicle. Usually the order would come from somewhere else to shoot, the guys in the launcher vehicle would not be making that call.

There is also a camera and a small monitor where you can watch the target, but from that altitude the plane would not be visible at all.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
probably was some russian soldiers (w/ the serious hardware shown above) instructed to shoot down any ukrainian cargo plane they could spot, and they mistook this passenger plane for one.
According to some Airbus military specialist, you can not possibly mistake the MA flight with anything else than a Malaysia Airline flight. Too much high tech hardware involved, you know exactly what you're firing at.

Disturbing, especially since the source seems super solide
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:23 PM
If it was russians that did it, what can the USA and the EU do to them? They've already imposed a bunch of sanctions.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieKelly
I wouldn't think the bodies could still be in tact after being hit by a missile and falling 30k feet from the sky.
It looked like the plane didn't explode when the missile hit. It seems to have broken apart and eventually turned into a fireball, probably slowing down quite a bit. Also a body falling 30,000 feet is the same thing as a body falling 2,000 feet. It reaches terminal velocity.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
If it was russians that did it, what can the USA and the EU do to them? They've already imposed a bunch of sanctions.
If you can prove whoever did it knew exactly what they were firing at, it could be qualified an act of war by any country that had passengers in this flight. I can't see how this would not make the current situation a LOT worse.

As for what would happen exactly, I'm not sure but it would have to be pretty bad.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:31 PM
If it was a BUK that shot it down, sounds normal that the plane would not "explode" when hit. The missile detonates before hitting target (don't remember exact distance). It will just be hitting the plane with a LOT of shrapnels, basically shredding it to pieces.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
If it was russians that did it, what can the USA and the EU do to them? They've already imposed a bunch of sanctions.
accept Ukraine into NATO
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:55 PM
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wangpirate
man. what kinda sick person immediately thinks to joke about that to a news anchor?

i mean obviously she wasn't paying attention, but you've gotta be pretty screwed up in the head to call in and make jokes about that immediately after it happened.

They had to evacuate countless buildings in NY and Wash on 9/11, just a non-stop string of bomb threats.
Malaysia Airlines flight (no not that one) shot down above Ukrainian airspace Quote

      
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