His summarization of the original tweet in Hebrew is innacurate, then throwing your summarization of his is even worse. The tweet says that those who naturally acquired covid are rarely getting it again, those who are fully vaccinated are getting covid at a higher rate. It's never says the vaccines don't work. It never says the natural immunity is superior, it isn't.

One can only image what actual anti-vaxxers say, when this is the dialogue of those who claim that they are not anti-vaxxers...

I have also been entertained by all the middle age single dudes cosplaying Gen Zers in this thread with their posts that insult 50 and 60 year olds being incapable of thinking. Props to the dude who urinates on gym gear when done to show the virus he means business, and bonus points for the derp posts suggesting women are incapable of making rational choices. This thread is an incel paradise.

Anyway, great derping this past week and let's hope next week produces even better derp material. Given that the new 2+2 owners will likely gut these forums in the not too distant future, the derps need to get in the good stuff while they can!

All the best.

If anyone wants to discuss the actual sane rational reasons why there could be sustained hospitalisations/deaths in this wave, its due to the fact that obviously in the last waves mitigations were brought in to reduce case load.

Given the whole strategy is now let err rip, the only thing that will bring case load down is burn through, which no one really knows when will happen.

So whilst each case has inherently much less risk presently of hospital/death if cases stay high for a much longer period of time, obviously those metrics will begin to accumulate.

Wow the UK is seeing a serious new wave. To you, Chez, and other UK posters hang in there. Making predictions regarding COVID is probably not wise. With that stated, looks like a new wave is starting in the USA as well. It does appear that deaths are not increasing at previous rates in the current UK wave.

are you arguing the two loudest voices for banning or ignoring, Toothsayer and Shuffle, want and invite information that disagrees with their extreme views?

You literally have TS arguing now that there is no correlation between those vaccinated Versus not and hospitalizations and then deaths. He believes the ONLY meaningful correlation is 'temperate weather' and laughs at those who know vax rates ARE ALSO at play and significant.

Now TS is not hopelessly stupid. He can adapt and learn once things are exposed to him enough and then he changes his view (claiming he was right both times) and i f*cking guarantee you, you will see him SOON first soften and then completely change his view on the impact of Vax rates on hospitalizations and deaths to mirror mine.

Data coming in from the SAME temperate areas that shows the massive skew of who ends up hospitalized should be enough to sway even a slow witted person like TS. You can't cry 'temperate zones' when within that zone you are seeing the same impact.

You can book mark this post and watch this space and laugh as you witness Toothsayer, pivot and caveat in real time and if he has any sense he will start that sooner, rather than later. Like now! As the data coming in will be a real embarrassment for him.

Shuffle,

I do not see evidence to suggest the slope of the hospitalizations in the UK on the current wave are steeper than the previous, the opposite actually. Even if you only include the last 10 days it has a slope of 163, less than the first and second part of the middle (big wave).



I mean just visually it looks that way also.

The hospitalization/case is also WAY lower. Case # matters when looking at slope of hospitalizations because you run out of nodes and R and all.

"COVID-19 is in freefall."

Shuffle,

The other thing you are missing is you are looking at this from a non-reality based lens. You talk of the risk of the vaccine (which is fine to talk about) but you do it in a vacuum with no pragmatism based on what's happening today.

Delta variant R is seemingly >6. Assuming you are not isolating and living in a cave (I am certainly not) you will get it. The way to think of the vaccine is not to *only* look at the unknown tail risk, but to compare it to the opportunity cost of getting Delta w/ no vaccines... and those unknown tail risks and pick the lesser of 2 evils.

All these things about blood clots, etc.. okay sure. Compare that downside to long term effects of getting covid and look at it in relative terms not absolute terms. How can people be this bad at strategy? People need to talk about comparative risk more, unless you're planning to live in a cave and avoid this whole pandemic. If you actually want to make a convincing case it's an abomination what we are doing or it's a mistake to get vaxxed, talk to the thread about the risk of getting delta, recovering form it, and its long term effects on blood clots, brain neurology, organs/lungs and make the case for why that outcome is less shitty than Pfizer.

I should note that even those vaxxed will likely get Delta/have already.. but even there, the "upside" of getting the vaccine is hopefully fading the tail risk of getting any long term health effects associated with covid, which as far as I understand it, may be less likely to happen if you've been jabbed.

I say all this and basically begrudgingly got vaccinated -- and not because I think there is absolutely no tail risk -- but because pragmatically speaking I know I will be getting Delta in the next several weeks inevitably and all else equal the timeline where I am vaccinated with at least 1 shot is as far as I understand it probabilistically better for my long term health. I'm an age group where my risk of dying is ~nil, so that's a moot point, I am purely optimizing for long term side effects.

Txs. Yes it's coming to everywhere. The vaccine is looking good but it's all eggs in one basket and even the best case looks very nasty.

I've been exposed along with millions of others and just waiting to see if I get hit in the next few days.

As society opens up and Lets it Rip thru the remaining unvaccinated the disparity of hospitalizations and deaths between Vax'd and unVax'd will only get clearer.

Despite that Derps will try to decouple that fact from the Data and just say want to look at hospitalization rates and death rates ignoring it is the Derps sick and dying.

It will be fun to watch and yes you heard it here first.


All COVID patients in LA County-run hospitals are unvaccinated, official says

As the Delta variant continues its rapid spread in Los Angeles County, Dr. Christina Ghaly says unvaccinated people now account for all COVID-19 hospitalizations at county-run hospitals.

"To date, we have not had a patient admitted to a DHS hospital who has been fully vaccinated with either the J&J, Pfizer or Moderna vaccine," Dr. Ghaly, director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, said Tuesday. "Every single patient that we've admitted for COVID has been not yet fully vaccinated."...


---------------------------------

Nearly all COVID deaths in US now among unvaccinated;

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated people, according to government data analyzed by the Associated Press.

“Breakthrough” infections, or COVID cases in those fully vaccinated, accounted for 1,200 of more than 853,000 hospitalizations in the U.S., making it 0.1% of hospitalizations. Data also showed that 150 of more than 18,000 COVID-19 related deaths were fully vaccinated people, which means they accounted for 0.8% of deaths....



----------------

Virtually all hospitalized Covid patients have one thing in common: They're unvaccinated
"I haven't had anyone that's been fully vaccinated become critically ill," one doctor said.

There are only three Covid-19 patients at Sandra Atlas Bass Heart Hospital at North Shore University Hospital, on Long Island, New York — a far cry from when the hospital, which is part of Northwell Health, had as many as 600 patients during the peak of the pandemic.

All three patients, who are in the intensive care unit, have one thing in common, said Dr. Hugh Cassiere, director of the hospital's critical care services: They're unvaccinated.

The trend appears to be occurring at hospitals nationwide...

I know to ignore cuepee, but the media is pushing this narrative hard.

Misinformation is completely fine as long as its pro-vaccine. No data on earth supports the conclusion the vaccine is as effective against delta as these stale hospitalization numbers suggest.

Who gives a flying **** about vaccine efficacy against hospitalization a month ago?

This thread is all about agenda based mis-information, and perhaps that is a representation of society. Look at some of the latest babble the end of world guy just spewed where vaccines are declared useless by comparing breakthrough infection rate with re-infection rate. Wouldn't frequency of serious cases and deaths of vaccinated vs unvaccinated (after the vaccines are available) be a better study for vaccine effectiveness vs breakthrough and re-infections (where who knows how many people had it a year ago and never knew, so they may not count as a re-infection).

In the end if hospitals and news media are reporting that nearly every death and serious case moving forward are voluntary unvaccinated derps then you and others are free to believe what you want, however you want - the derpier the beliefs the better (for entertainment value). One guy says the vaccines will cause genocide (but even his fellow derps pretend he does not exist as he goes full HAM with his crazy). The virus will not care in the end.

All the best.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coro...cases/2556408/

The media out there getting quotes from doctors at hospitals with 3 patients.

Blatant cherry picking from your own source is not a good look son.

Because real world data we can all see, but you mental gymnastics ignore by saying total case rate does not matter.

Looool

Such projection.

Again UK, highly vaccinated, large amounts of cases, relatively no one in hospital or dead.

Its not propaganda, its reality.

Go and wank in your basement to some doom porn, you are so tedious and absurd.

The forums biggest joke poster and its not even close, even Tooth has more rep than you.

I'm not saying the vaccine doesn't work, just that pointing to stale data while we are currently in the midst of an inflection point is borderline misinformation.

Why would we be looking at US data to predict an outcome in the US right now?
We know what happens when delta is dominant and it isn't that every patient in the hospital is unvaccinated.

How many people were vaccinated on Jan 1?

Anyway I posted that because a moron (QP) posted itt that there are virtually no breakthrough deaths and hospitalizations, when that is clearly untrue.

That is only Illinois by the way.

Of course because the UK is not going to take any mitigation measures in reaction to a heavy new wave of cases, indeed the exact opposite and is going to be the first country to relax almost fully whilst having a large case load, even at low ratio's cases might rise to such high numbers there are significant hospitalisations and deaths, but this is nothing to do with vaccines not working.

If vaccines did not work this country I live in would already be ****ed.

Plenty of public health officials recommending mask usage for vaccinated and unvaccinated people alike seem to understand that while the vaccine is effective it isn't going to prevent hospitalization in our current reality like it did a month or 6 weeks go.

All I'm saying is maybe let's not run out and continue telling people the vaccine offers virtually perfect protection against hospitalization in the US.

Best case you are looking at low/mid 90s. Not 99.9%

2% seems close to virtually none imo.

Also what is efficacy against serious disease/death meant to be across the range of vaccines in USA? 80-90%~?

Shuffle, if you were even close to balanced and rational you would understand that significantly less against infection is not the same as completely does not work at all against infection, serious illness and death.

Also anyone who is not a complete moron will take actual numbers over the testimony of a politician and the numbers emphatically show the vaccine working.

You might also notice that not a single smart objective reasonable person even remotely agrees with you.

Or Western Europe is seeing a Delta wave which has not reached Eastern Europe yet? The geographic split between those nations could not be more obvious.

UK seeded Delta in Europe due to its links with India and closing down travel way way to late, proximity to the UK is the determinate here.

Nice try though.