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Bitcoins - digital currency Bitcoins - digital currency

08-25-2013 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickC16
Coinbase is 1% vig PLUS a nice spread on bid/offer (I saw 108.86-109.56 yesterday). So it adds up, but is definitely convenient.

To the guy working on a new exchange - just forget about the US market. Compliance is impossible with all the state regulations. The guys who claim to be compliant today are not (they will be busted at some point). Better off sticking with EU and South America (growing markets).
It is currently impossible, yes, however, we are working with the leading digital currency compliance company and are in the process of establishing relationships with a number of banks. When it is possible, we will be at the top of the list.

I completely agree regarding the UK and SA. We are looking into both now along with India and Africa.

Last edited by Rob1543; 08-25-2013 at 01:54 PM. Reason: thanks Seth, great points.
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08-25-2013 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep
Coinbase spread widens as you purchase more too. They're definitely getting a nice cut.
This is brilliant to advertise 1% and get most people including me to believe it.

Matt, do you have any sort of estimate for what % of the money flowing into bitcoin is coming from the US? I would make sure to get cozy with some gox or bitstamp employees and try to get them to tell you a ballpark to make better decisions about target markets. This is just a wild guess, but it seems to me that well over half of it is coming from the US, excluding markets with capital controls like China. Maybe even something like 75%.

You might consider just licensing the exchange software and partner with people in various countries who have the necessary connections to get banking partners in countries where the only option to get bitcoins is to do a wire. Having a bank account in local currency gives a huge edge over competition, since domestic transfers are usually very cheap or free. However, I guess I should note that this doesn't seem to be helping the Brazilian exchange very much, despite a market of 200m people with capital controls.

Vancouver based Bex.io might beat you to it though:
http://www.paymentssource.com/news/b...3014759-1.html

Honestly the exchange space just looks completely screwed to me. The people who bring value are the ones who can recruit banking and compliance partners since they are all scared of the uncertainty. People who can recruit huge capital to park in bank accounts to keep the banks happy are good too. Actually building the exchange is worthless. People seem fine with using exchanges with crappy trade engines, security holes, etc. ZhouTong wrote bitcoinica in 5 days using ruby on rails.
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08-25-2013 , 03:16 PM
I would also be careful of the exchange space because there are a lot of places ready to enter soon that have serious backing. I know of at least one, and I'm sure there are several more. VC wants into this space, especially because having more convenient exchanges will the fastest thing to raise the price of Bitcoin, which many VC firms that are getting into this space will be holding Bitcoins, so setting up these businesses don't even need to be that big of a success if they raise the price.

The days of small-time exchanges are over, and unless you have some serious connections and money, it's not a game I would get into. At least in major markets like the US. If you are trying to get into under-served places, it's another story.
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08-25-2013 , 05:04 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfer...lnerability/2/

Quote:
Coming End of Fiat Currencies

The term “fiat currencies” is strange and mostly not understood in this modern “progressive” era, where everything is transformed by political “Progressives” into fiat rather than natural forms, which continue to exist as long as so-called “Progressives” have the power to impose them. So instead of Natural Law, we have fiat law, which is whatever those who currently have the political power say it is. And instead of Natural Rights, the world today mostly recognizes only fiat rights, which are only the rights those in power say we have. America was rooted in Natural Rights and Natural Law, which so-called Progressives have been rebelling against for more than 100 years, certain they had better ideas more suited to the modern world.

And so today we have fiat money instead of natural money. Fiat money is money with a government declared value, rather than a natural, inherent value. That is how the government takes some paper, slaps some ink on it, and supposedly it has the value the government and the ink says it has.

But that fiat money also lasts only as long as the ruling class has the power to impose it on us. That means the political power and the market power to do that. At some point, the market power, which is more real and natural, can overcome the political power. And that is the point we are reaching, when the innovation becomes more real and natural.

It is not Bitcoin, or Liberty Reserve, or any other private organization that is abusing and trashing the dollar. It is the United States Federal Reserve. Since the Fed was established in 1913, the dollar has lost 95% of its value. That is due to the depreciation of the currency resulting from the Fed’s monetary policies. The Fed has been a true to form “progressive” institution since its founding as one of the first reforms of the “Progressive” Movement.

Jim Cramer was quite wrong, and trite, when he appeared on a CBS TV show to say that Bitcoin is not a true currency, because there is no central bank to regulate it. Currencies do not need regulation by central banks to function as true currencies. Central banks need regulation by markets to keep their currencies functional. And Bloomberg News was equally wrong, and trite, when it so predictably published the dysfunctional progressive party line in a column on April 4 by Mathew Zeitlin, saying that durable currencies can only function as creatures of a state.

The dollar prevails as the world’s reserve currency because it has only been in competition with other fiat currencies that have been equally mismanaged or worse.
Too bad the article derails to goldbug afterwards, but still a nice article imo.
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08-25-2013 , 05:27 PM
seth, when you say Coinbase must have a great anti-fraud team to avoid being scammed, what exactly are you referring to here?
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08-25-2013 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heltok
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterfer...lnerability/2/



Too bad the article derails to goldbug afterwards, but still a nice article imo.
Actually the whole article is typical goldbug drab and vague prophecy that they've been saying for 100 years, here's the relevant part to this thread:

Quote:
It is not Bitcoin that will arise as the alternative global reserve currency, because as discussed above, it has no inherent value either, so it is subject to wide swings in market value too. The real threat to the dollar is a different, private, alternative currency that can arise, that is based in real commodities with inherent value.

Such a currency will not be rooted only in the imagination of cyberspace, but will look more like the currencies of old that gave rise to booming capitalism. A foreign financial institution free from meddling, destabilizing, self-interested, U.S. policy interference can issue a currency where each unit entitles the bearer to specified quantities of a diversified basket of precious commodities, like gold, silver, copper, oil, diamonds and similar commodities that inherently hold their value over the long run.
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08-25-2013 , 11:35 PM
There used to be an online currency called e-gold and it ended up being shutdown for legal reasons. It had physical backing in gold, and was formed outside the US. That, amongst many other recent reasons that have come to light, make me wildly bearish on bitcoin exchanges, and many things about bitcoin as a whole. A lot of new exchanges have opened up as of late with some cool ideas though and a lot of money backing them so I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether or not the government wins this time. Agree with others that coinbase is basically impossible to compete in the US with on so many levels.
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08-26-2013 , 07:50 AM
e-gold was run by a central authority for a start so not sure if it's a fair comparison with BTC. I'm sure there's a host of other crucial differences as well someone who knows more about it could say
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08-26-2013 , 01:08 PM
The one thing I don't like about coinbase is you can't sell btc and keep the cash on their so you can buy back without having to have money coming in and out of your bank account.
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08-26-2013 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoretimes
The one thing I don't like about coinbase is you can't sell btc and keep the cash on their so you can buy back without having to have money coming in and out of your bank account.
What's that matter when you get coins credited instantly when you buy, and when you sell the money is in your account next day? If you sell, and then want to buy them back 10 min later you can just do it and it will come out fine in your bank account. I think if anything this is a huge positive because coinbase doesn't hold huge cash balances that are at risk unlike mt gox.
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08-26-2013 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaineTech
What's that matter when you get coins credited instantly when you buy, and when you sell the money is in your account next day? If you sell, and then want to buy them back 10 min later you can just do it and it will come out fine in your bank account. I think if anything this is a huge positive because coinbase doesn't hold huge cash balances that are at risk unlike mt gox.
Only if you get instant verification. For some reason, I cannot get CB to verify me, I even get into the secondary questions, all answered correctly and nothing. My only issue with CB is how they basically refuse to assist with that process..don't offer, if you won't assist.
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08-26-2013 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaineTech
What's that matter when you get coins credited instantly when you buy, and when you sell the money is in your account next day? If you sell, and then want to buy them back 10 min later you can just do it and it will come out fine in your bank account. I think if anything this is a huge positive because coinbase doesn't hold huge cash balances that are at risk unlike mt gox.
True.. I retract my complaint!
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08-27-2013 , 12:55 AM
When I've had a few pops I like to bang this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pID03RrmKow

Then I always pull the trigger and buy some more!
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08-27-2013 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Probability
It is currently impossible, yes, however, we are working with the leading digital currency compliance company and are in the process of establishing relationships with a number of banks. When it is possible, we will be at the top of the list.

I completely agree regarding the UK and SA. We are looking into both now along with India and Africa.

perhaps relevant to your interests and an interesting listen no doubt:

buttercoin ceo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTnH...tailpage#t=390
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08-27-2013 , 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaineTech
What's that matter when you get coins credited instantly when you buy, and when you sell the money is in your account next day? If you sell, and then want to buy them back 10 min later you can just do it and it will come out fine in your bank account. I think if anything this is a huge positive because coinbase doesn't hold huge cash balances that are at risk unlike mt gox.

A bit off topic, but how is coinbase able to take money from your account, I guess the same as any bill pay service like my credit card and mortgage. What would happen if someone hacked coinbase or coinbase went rogue, could they just withdraw 50k out of my bank account and I'm sol?
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08-27-2013 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoretimes
A bit off topic, but how is coinbase able to take money from your account, I guess the same as any bill pay service like my credit card and mortgage. What would happen if someone hacked coinbase or coinbase went rogue, could they just withdraw 50k out of my bank account and I'm sol?
ACH's can be clawed back in a certain period of time or even cancelled right as they happen if you are able to show proof that they were hacked/went rogue.
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08-28-2013 , 11:31 AM
[IMG]http://s11.************/awaew7fpf/9_CYQFOR77_tztv_Jrpiy65_Pz_U1q09_L2_Siv_G37g0_Ol_O D4.png[/IMG]

Mining = dead money
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08-28-2013 , 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethseth
[IMG]http://s11.************/awaew7fpf/9_CYQFOR77_tztv_Jrpiy65_Pz_U1q09_L2_Siv_G37g0_Ol_O D4.png[/IMG]

Mining = dead money
While I think half of those won't deliver or deliver very late I do agree that mining is dead for the people without xxx.xxx budgets.
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08-28-2013 , 02:47 PM
So are these guys banking on a massive increase in bitcoin value? How could they possibly justify the investment?
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08-28-2013 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendoh
So are these guys banking on a massive increase in bitcoin value? How could they possibly justify the investment?
http://blockchain.info/tx/4ed20e0768...2afba8c8554537
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08-28-2013 , 03:10 PM
And does anyone have a blog or twitter they recommend for bitcoin news/analysis?
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08-28-2013 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendoh
So are these guys banking on a massive increase in bitcoin value? How could they possibly justify the investment?
These people do not justify their investments. They think "look at difficulty now, FREE MONEY!!!" and buy ASICs. These are not savvy investors or businessmen, they are a lot of times morons who got lucky being in the right time and right place and got bailed out of their stupid decisions in the past by something that mitigated their risk (price increase), whereas if they were banking on price increases, they were better off buying and holding the damn coins up front.
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08-28-2013 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendoh
And does anyone have a blog or twitter they recommend for bitcoin news/analysis?
News sites:
http://coindesk.com
http://bitcoinexaminer.org/
http://thegenesisblock.com
http://forexmagnates.com/category/bitcoin-2/

Blogs:
https://btcglobal.net/blog
http://blog.coinsetter.com/

Matt, sounds good. Everyone is just getting hung up on compliance. Coinsetter and Kraken said they could have launched during the bitcoin2013 conference. All they are doing is waiting on regulatory stuff.

I am not aware of any site that estimates the source of wire transfers to bitcoin exchanges. Are you sure you saw this data? The only way they could get that data to make an estimate is from the exchange operators, and I don't recall that information being in the Mtgox transparency report.
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08-28-2013 , 07:22 PM
would you buy Block Eruptor at 0.19btc/u if you didn't pay electricity ?
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08-28-2013 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABARtheELEPHANT
would you buy Block Eruptor at 0.19btc/u if you didn't pay electricity ?
absolutely not (for profit). for education, ya its prolly worth buying 1 and setting it up.

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator
Coins Dollars
per Day ฿0.00 $0.30
per Week ฿0.02 $2.13
per Month ฿0.08 $9.27

when difficulty goes up 100% in a month, you gotta adjust your projections

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