Bitcoins - digital currency - Page 1055 - Business, Finances and Investing Forum

Poor people have basically no money. http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/08/news...ome/index.html

I'm sure someone is totally willing to spend a couple weeks or more of pay to buy a ledger and then educate themselves on how to use it, on top of paying more frictional fees as opposed to fiat.

Actual poor people want basic medical care, clean water, and food to eat. They have no desire to use buttcoins. Sell some coins and sponsor some vaccines if you wanna help the poor, but don't delude yourself that you're providing some sort of societal good spreading bitcoin to Africa.

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01-15-2018 , 03:33 AM

#26352

eddymitchel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoe

Poor people will never be able to use bitcoin, the fees are too high. If you are already rich in a corrupt/poor country you could use bitcoin to protect your assets.

Fees will get fixed at some point. The current congestion is annoying but at least it force action. Exchanges will start doing more efficient transactions under pressure.
Lightning is getting tested on main chain.
Atomic swaps will help aswell.

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01-15-2018 , 03:44 AM

#26353

krunic

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Quote:

Originally Posted by coordi

Its always funny when the idea of say, Venezuela, adopting bitcoin gets tossed around. How are all the poor Venezuelans going to buy bitcoin with their valueless Venezuelan money? Is the Venezuelan government going to buy bitcoin with dollars and distribute dollar amounts of bitcoin at Venezuelan exchange rates? Its all pretty lol.

I have no idea if Venezuelans would actually want BTC, but if they did they most certainly would use USD purchased on the black market. No one actually uses bolivars, from what I've read.

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01-15-2018 , 04:51 AM

#26354

Shoe

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Quote:

Originally Posted by eddymitchel

No.

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01-15-2018 , 08:48 AM

#26355

Mat Cauthon

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,147

One point about Venezuela is that for people living there before **** really hit the fan, if they had invested their savings into Bitcoin, then they would still have something after the bolivar collapsed, and the government couldn't just confiscate it.

Too late for them, but other countries that fear ending up in similar situations or milder version of it, could buy bitcoin in advance.

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01-15-2018 , 09:11 AM

#26356

NewOldGuy

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Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by krunic

I have no idea if Venezuelans would actually want BTC, but if they did they most certainly would use USD purchased on the black market. No one actually uses bolivars, from what I've read.

Argentina and Brazil have pretty high bitcoin adoption due to problems with the official currency.

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01-15-2018 , 09:21 AM

#26357

eddymitchel

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Many Asian countries have been adopting bitcoin for a while aswell.

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01-15-2018 , 10:01 AM

#26358

Bluegrassplayer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Cauthon

I'm pretty sure this is the point that people were trying to make and saying "lol can't buy btc with worthless money" now is being more than a bit obtuse.

If they'd had the option to purchase btc when they saw the government ruining their currency then things might be very different. It's a little late by this point obviously.

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01-15-2018 , 01:56 PM

#26359

TomCollins

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

Those who didn't see it can now use their labor and capital to make things and actually get paid in a currency that holds value, especially through export. Those with access to electricity can mine. They can then use this money to uy imports that they otherwise wouldn't be able to.

Perhaps people in other countries will see the writing on the wall and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wouldn't count on it at any large scale, most people don't plan for these events.

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01-15-2018 , 03:42 PM

#26360

rubbrband

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They won’t adopt btc as a currency but they might adopt crypto in general as a currency. Stop looking at everything in a vacuum and look at the bigger picture. You don’t need a nano to keep small amounts of crypto. Smartphones can easily store crypto. If there is a need for simpler ways to buy and sell it’s not difficult to find solutions.

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01-15-2018 , 03:58 PM

#26361

Abbaddabba

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Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,807

Or they can use USD/euros, which plenty already do, accomplishing everything that cryptos are claiming to without them having to rely on a volatile currency that requires the people you're exchanging value with to possess/understand a new technology that seems to be beyond the comprehension of most people who've spent long hours researching it.

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01-15-2018 , 04:19 PM

#26362

Mihkel05

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Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 4,835

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbaddabba

This.

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01-15-2018 , 04:42 PM

#26363

Didace

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Wait, Bitcoin is a currency again? I thought it had switched to being a store of value. I can't keep up.

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01-15-2018 , 05:40 PM

#26364

Bluegrassplayer

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Yep.

Shouldn't be too hard to figure out why going to a blackmarket with your life's savings isn't the best idea. We're not talking about using btc for buying bread.

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01-15-2018 , 06:18 PM

#26365

NewOldGuy

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Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mihkel05

This.

Those countries make it difficult and expensive to exchange their currency for dollars.

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01-15-2018 , 06:34 PM

#26366

aggo

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https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/h...currencies.pdf

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01-15-2018 , 06:40 PM

#26367

Dutch101

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,021

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewOldGuy

Those countries make it difficult and expensive to exchange their currency for dollars.

Exchanging their currency for bitcoin is just as difficult and expensive in those countries. In most cases they need dollars first to buy bitcoin as the market for their local currency is not big enough.

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01-15-2018 , 07:04 PM

#26368

HUMBLE.

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Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 2,015

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggo

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/h...currencies.pdf

Good article, aggo.

As a newcomer, I thoroughly enjoyed this paper. A nice birds eye view and their example of Bitcoin to the Stones of Yap was funny. Also briefly introduces the topic of energy wastage that many proof of work coins result in, which is something to think about--How can a crypto become the future of currency when it results in so much resources and energy wasted? However, to make an accurate assessment we must fairly compare all of the resources that a central authority requires.

I liked this bit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Short Introduction to the World of Crypto Currencies

This leads us to the question of whether the rigid predetermined supply of Bitcoin is a desirable monetary policy in the sense that it leads to a stable currency. The answer is no because the price of Bitcoin also depends on aggregate demand. If a constant supply of money meets a fluctuating aggregate demand, the result is fluctuating prices. In government-run fiat currency systems, the central bank aims to adjust the money supply in response to changes in aggregate demand for money in order to stabilize the price
level.

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01-15-2018 , 07:40 PM

#26369

Westley

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Last edited by Westley; 01-15-2018 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Wrong thread .. duhh

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01-16-2018 , 04:00 AM

#26370

Dutch101

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,021

If you compare it fairly proof of work is way more resource intensive than any fiat currency. You can't just add costs on the fiat side that also add additional services and just compare it with only the blockchain on bitcoin side.

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01-16-2018 , 04:11 AM

#26371

eddymitchel

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it s hard to compare fiat and crypto.
proof of work bring some upside to the cost and tend to get optimized alot overtime as it s the bottomline for miners.
I m fairly sure fiat could optimize alot aswell and crypto will push adjustment in fiat aswell, for exemple coins and bills are super inneficient and dropping them would lower fiat costs a ton.

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01-16-2018 , 05:29 AM

#26372

lvBlitzforce

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Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 1,212

Getting pretty ugly across the board, time to BUY.

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01-16-2018 , 05:29 AM

#26373

eddymitchel

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time to buy might be next week

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01-16-2018 , 05:54 AM

#26374

IHaveThreePair

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Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 1,136

This is not pretty. 20% swing is a lot for people to don't really understand how these markets work - could see a lot of panic selling today.

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01-16-2018 , 08:21 AM

#26375

rafiki

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That 13.5 to 13k support had held for a while. First time since I've been following the rise that it's not held?

What's next obvious support, round number like 10k and then around 7k?

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