***BUYER BEWARE***

I've been coached by a number of diff coaches from 2p2 as well as DC, and I will continue to receive coaching in an effort to grow and learn as a player. I have never had an issue with any coach before, and so this in no way reflects on the general coaching community on 2p2 or anywhere else for that matter....

However I think its only fair that everyone considering to hire OP think twice before doing so.

I had prepaid $325 for 3 of Dan's (OP) coaching programs/sessions. He forgot about our first session, but promised he would never forget again, and if he did he would issue me a full refund + free coaching. We rescheduled and I had my first session with him.

A couple of weeks later I scheduled our 2nd session, and again, he was a no show. When I PM'd him he admitted to having forgotten, but that he could reschedule for the next day, same time. Two hours before the session the next day, he PM'd me saying:

3rd strike imo, so at this point I thought I'd been more than patient and decided PM him on the 25th to ask for a refund for the remaining two programs/sessions. Not having received any response from OP, I PM'd him again on the 27th, this time telling him that I'd be taking him up on his offer to issue a full refund, but that I wasn't interested in receiving the free coaching.

I finally received a PM from him today:

I told him I appreciated his apology and offer, but that I was already in the process of hiring another coach, but that he could make things right by issuing me a full refund as he had originally promised to do if we were to ever find ourselves in the situation we were currently in.

Here's an excerpt the conversation on skype that ensued:

grimdonkee: but in all honesty, you haven't fulfilled your end of the deal
grimdonkee: and I think you know this
Dan: yea, I havent been available lately
grimdonkee: its not just that you haven't been available bro, you forgot the first session, then you forgot the second session, and then cancelled the third session lol
grimdonkee: u see what I'm saying?
Dan: lol, it sounds bad I know
Dan: I will be available more often now
grimdonkee: its just not good business man
grimdonkee: I don't understand how someone who plays NL100 and NL200 cannot afford to refund 325?
Dan: I had to pay 6 months in advance on my apartment
Dan: so it really crippled my roll
Dan: and I dont play 200NL anymore
Dan: I agree to finish the last 2 sessions I owe you and ou paid for as well as 1 hour on top for your troubles
grimdonkee: man........are you really going to keep my money like that bro?
Dan: in exchenge for my coaching yes... thats what you gave it to me for remember?
grimdonkee: but you weren't professional about it bro, come on man. Even you have admitted that.
Dan: I agree with you 100% I wasn't professional and really will work to improve on this in the future
Dan: honestly, I don't normally miss a scheduled session
Dan: youve just had really bad luck
grimdonkee: but you can't just work on your professionalism on my time and money bro, this is something you have to work on your own
grimdonkee: you say you can't afford it
grimdonkee: and that's the main issue right?
Dan: I cant offer a refund
Dan: thats the issue. sorry
grimdonkee: you realize its YOUR promise I'm holding you to right?
Dan: I understand you are not happy with me but like I said I cannot offer you the refund. I am still more than happy to schedule another session with you at your convenience (even right now).
grimdonkee: if you cannot afford it now, then I will give you some time to refund me
grimdonkee: but you are refusing to agree that
Dan: Sorry, but I cannot refund you
Dan: because I dont offer refunds
Dan: I offer coaching

BS imo.

That's pretty bad.

Dan: Sorry, but I cannot refund you
Dan: because I dont offer refunds
Dan: I offer coaching


ouch.

What is it about that name!

Well, I really hope this thread helps you get your money back or cuts business for that coach - GL

another one bites the dust...

Wow, what an absolute slimebag.

Hope things are going well for you pokerwise Bung.

Well, I have nothing to hide and here is the whole convo instead of just an excerpt...
I am still willing to work with bung on the coaching... whether he chooses to accept it is up to him.

As far as me saying it might be awkward... that was only after bung said it would be awkward for him. I have no problem working with him in the future

As of now I owe him 2 more sessions and I am throwing in an extra hour for his troubles. I have definetly learned my lesson on offering refunds. In the future I will not offer any refunds. If anyone feels untrustworthy of me now after reading bung's post I have no problem getting payment on a session by session bases instead of multiple session in 1 payment

[3:14:00 PM] Dan says: hey
[3:14:14 PM] Dan says: sorry, been offline the past few days
[3:14:19 PM] grimdonkee says: just read your PM
[3:14:24 PM] Dan says: I need to buy my own internet lol
[3:14:36 PM] Dan says: k
[3:14:39 PM] grimdonkee says: would be a good idea lol
[3:15:01 PM] Dan says: sorry about my availablity lately
[3:15:08 PM] Dan says: I would be available today though
[3:15:11 PM] Dan says: or tomorrow
[3:15:17 PM] Dan says: right now if you want
[3:15:34 PM] grimdonkee says: tbh, I don't an apology bro, I just need you to do the right thing in this case
[3:15:43 PM] grimdonkee says: need*
[3:15:48 PM] Dan says: yea
[3:15:55 PM] grimdonkee says: you seem like a cool dude bro
[3:16:02 PM] Dan says: you too
[3:16:04 PM] grimdonkee says: ty
[3:16:21 PM] grimdonkee says: but in all honesty, you haven't fulfilled your end of the deal
[3:16:26 PM] grimdonkee says: and I think you know this
[3:16:40 PM] Dan says: yea, I havent been available lately
[3:16:50 PM] Dan says: I am available right now though
[3:17:17 PM] grimdonkee says: its not just that you haven't been available bro, you forgot the first session, then you forgot the second session, and then cancelled the third session lol
[3:17:28 PM] grimdonkee says: u see what I'm saying?
[3:17:30 PM] Dan says: lol, it sounds bad I know
[3:17:52 PM] Dan says: I will be available more often now
[3:17:57 PM] Dan says: I am buying my own internet too
[3:17:57 PM] grimdonkee says: its just not good business man
[3:18:02 PM] grimdonkee says: that's another thing
[3:18:11 PM] Dan says: yea, I understand what your saying and agree 100%
[3:18:36 PM] grimdonkee says: y would you coach if you don't have your own internet, that's just irresponsible imo. Now I won't tell you how to run your biz bro, and I'm not even angry or upset or anything like that
[3:18:46 PM] grimdonkee says: its just that I think I am fully in my right to ask for a refund
[3:19:45 PM] Dan says: yea, its just when I got here I was able to connect to the internet but it hasnt been very reliable latlely. Like I said I can't afford to offer you a refund though
[3:20:08 PM] Dan says: but I can finish the rest of the coaching I owe you
[3:20:13 PM] grimdonkee says: I don't understand how someone who plays NL100 and NL200 cannot afford to refund 325?
[3:20:14 PM] Dan says: and throw in an hour on top
[3:20:45 PM] Dan says: I had to pay 6 months in advance on my apartment
[3:20:59 PM] Dan says: so it really crippled my roll
[3:21:03 PM] grimdonkee says: i don't understand why i would have to pay for your apartment though king
[3:21:04 PM] Dan says: and I dont play 200NL anymore
[3:21:18 PM] Dan says: I never said that
[3:21:30 PM] grimdonkee says: u know what i'm saying bro.......come on man
[3:21:41 PM] Dan says: I agree to finish the last 2 sessions I owe you and ou paid for as well as 1 hour on top for your troubles
[3:22:00 PM] Dan says: you*
[3:23:36 PM] grimdonkee says: lol, bro, I really do not want anymore coaching from you. 1) its going to be really awkward 2) all i'm asking is for you to fulfill your promise of a refund if you were forgot again. I even forgave the fact that you forgot again. but after a 3rd time, I mean come on lol 3) i have already hired another coach and wouldn't have time to get coach by anyone else anyways
[3:24:22 PM] grimdonkee says: tbh, I'd rather wait a week or something
[3:24:26 PM] grimdonkee says: for a refund
[3:26:05 PM] Dan says: 1. It wont be awkward for me and you did nothing wrong so you have nothing to worry about there. 2. I am sorry but I cannot afford to offer you a refund. 3. I have a flexible schedule so just let me know a good time.
[3:26:32 PM] grimdonkee says: man........are you really going to keep my money like that bro?
[3:26:48 PM] grimdonkee says: you can't possibly think you have a right to it.....
[3:26:58 PM] Dan says: in exchenge for my coaching yes... thats what you gave it to me for remember?
[3:27:34 PM] grimdonkee says: but you weren't professional about it bro, come on man. Even you have admitted that.
[3:28:47 PM] Dan says: I agree with you 100% I wasn't professional and really will work to improve on this in the future
[3:29:07 PM] Dan says: honestly, I don't normally miss a scheduled session
[3:29:13 PM] Dan says: youve just had really bad luck
[3:29:30 PM] grimdonkee says: but you can't just work on your professionalism on my time and money bro, this is something you have to work on your own
[3:29:42 PM] grimdonkee says: look
[3:29:51 PM] grimdonkee says: you say you can't afford it
[3:30:04 PM] grimdonkee says: and that's the main issue right?
[3:30:33 PM] Dan says: I cant offer a refund
[3:30:39 PM] Dan says: thats the issue. sorry
[3:30:52 PM] grimdonkee says: wow, I don't even know what to say to that man
[3:31:03 PM] grimdonkee says: i can't believe you're going to keep my $$ like that man
[3:31:28 PM] Dan says: Im not just gonna keep it. Its in exchange for my services like we both knew
[3:31:48 PM] grimdonkee says: but you didn't provide a proper service sir, u know it
[3:31:59 PM] Dan says: when is a good time for you to have our next session?
[3:32:16 PM] grimdonkee says: D.......u're not feeling me on this man. I do not want more coaching from you bra
[3:32:32 PM] grimdonkee says: so what now?
[3:32:34 PM] grimdonkee says: that's it?
[3:32:46 PM] grimdonkee says: what am I supposed to do now?
[3:33:07 PM] Dan says: Well, I can make a few videos for you instead
[3:33:18 PM] Dan says: I am pretty flexible about how you use what I owe you still
[3:33:32 PM] grimdonkee says: u're not man, cuz I just want a refund
[3:33:38 PM] grimdonkee says: look
[3:34:33 PM] grimdonkee says: are you not willing to give me anything?
[3:34:34 PM] Dan says: I cant offer you a refund... I am very sorry
[3:34:41 PM] Dan says: I will give you coaching
[3:34:46 PM] Dan says: in any form of your choice
[3:35:16 PM] grimdonkee says: jesus bro. u're putting me in such a ****ty position.....
[3:35:46 PM] grimdonkee says: you admit i've done nothing wrong, and that you've been at fault here, but you still won't refund me my $$
[3:35:58 PM] grimdonkee says: even though you promised you would if this were to ever happen again
[3:36:18 PM] grimdonkee says: is that it man?
[3:36:34 PM] grimdonkee says: how can you keep my $$ in good conscience dude?
[3:37:02 PM] grimdonkee says: i'm not happy with your service and I'm only holding you to the standard that you yourself set before us
[3:37:24 PM] grimdonkee says: you realize its YOUR promise I'm holding you to right?
[3:38:21 PM] Dan says: I understand you are not happy with me but like I said I cannot offer you the refund. I am still more than happy to schedule another session with you at your convenience (even right now).
[3:38:57 PM] grimdonkee says: if you cannot afford it now, then I will give you some time to refund me
[3:39:10 PM] grimdonkee says: but you are refusing to agree that
[3:39:12 PM] Dan says: Sorry, but I cannot refund you
[3:39:28 PM] Dan says: you paid for coaching and thats what I can offer you
[3:39:40 PM] grimdonkee says: unbelievable bro. ok, well you're not leaving me with much of a choice here man.
[3:39:56 PM] Dan says: sorry
[3:40:02 PM] grimdonkee says: i don't think u are man
[3:40:09 PM] Dan says: I really am
[3:40:38 PM] grimdonkee says: lol, u're not, if you were really sorry you'd take responsibility for your actions and follow through with it
[3:40:47 PM] grimdonkee says: anyways, i'm out bra
[3:42:06 PM] grimdonkee says: i will be posting the contents of this convy and our PMs in your coaching thread. I prepaid in good faith, and you betrayed my trust. People shouldn't be allowed to that to other people man.
[3:42:14 PM] grimdonkee says: peace.
[3:43:01 PM] Dan says: have a good one, whenever your ready for the next session let me know. I am ready right now if you want
[3:44:08 PM] grimdonkee says: dude, please understand, I don't want to do this, but I will protect my money if you force me to man. You realize that because you're being stubborn about this now, it will hurt your coaching biz in the future? Why can't you just be honorable about this **** man?
[3:44:30 PM] grimdonkee says: y do you have to keep my money because you were irresponsible?
[3:44:35 PM] grimdonkee says: I don't understand
[3:44:47 PM] Dan says: because I dont offer refunds
[3:44:51 PM] Dan says: I offer coaching
[3:45:04 PM] grimdonkee says: but you did offer me a refund did you not?
[3:45:16 PM] Dan says: I did before I offered you any coaching at all
[3:45:22 PM] Dan says: then we had our session
[3:45:32 PM] Dan says: and we still have 2 more whenever you want
[3:45:55 PM] Dan says: + 1 hour on top of it for your troubes
[3:45:57 PM] grimdonkee says: i still have the PM bro, you offered me a refund IF you were to ever forgot about a coaching session again. Which you did.
[3:46:13 PM] grimdonkee says: twice after the first time on top of that
[3:47:12 PM] Dan says: I understand where your coming from. I have learned my lesson about offering refunds in the future. I offer coaching not refunds
[3:47:14 PM] grimdonkee says: so what do you want me to do bro? You really want me to go and post all this in your coaching thread? I'm telling you I don't like doing that ****........please refund me my $$ bro man
[3:48:13 PM] Dan says: I will leave that up to you but I cant offer you a refund... just coaching and you are free to alter my program too
[3:48:23 PM] grimdonkee says: look, how about you refund me 2/3 of what I paid then, can you do that?
[3:48:32 PM] grimdonkee says: keep 1/3 for the time you did spend
[3:48:53 PM] grimdonkee says: and we go our separate ways
[3:49:19 PM] Dan says: I cant do that. sorry
[3:49:33 PM] grimdonkee says: ok
[3:49:37 PM] grimdonkee says: peace bro.
[3:50:18 PM] Dan says: so you have 2 more sessions available at anytime you wish + 1 hour on top of those for your troubles. Just let me know when your ready.

Anyone who uses this guy as a coach from now on is just ignorant. This is one inmature guy

wow taking your money, spending it before sessions and then not turn up is pretty bad imo. Bizarre that a so-called coach would risk their reputation over not even 2 buy ins at their apparent stakes. Ul op, hope you get it back.

Notice I have received no complaint when it comes to my coaching. In fact bung himself said he was very happy with me after our session and he learned a lot. Everyone I have coached was happy with my coaching... Just read all the positive reviews in my coaching threads. I admit I wasn't as professional as I could have been here and I have learned my lesson as far as refunds. NO REFUNDS in the future. And if you want to play it safe a session by session payment method works fine for me.
Dan

Awful. This should be VERY important to anyone, make sure to get a reputable coach.

And how could you possibly think he's not entitled to a refund? You pretty much just ruined your coaching business.

Dude that dont matter. What you did was wrong. You basically run a business. You said this guy can have a refund if you missed a session. Not only did you miss one session you missed 2. Im not even sure how you are defending yourself on this one. It really doesnt matter if you are a good coach now since you lost all trustworthiness. So Im sticking with people are gonna have to be ignorant to have you as a coach when they cant even count on you to show up. And you are right in the fact that no one will ever pay you all up front. If people still hire you as a coach it will be session by session only. You should have just refunded this guy as promised. I dont think many people on 2p2 will disagree with me here

I choose not to offer refunds for my coaching. If you have a coaching service you are more than welcome to offer your students a refund. Personally I choose not to. But I have no problem finishing up our last 2 sessions and even throwing an hour in at no charge.
Dan

The coaching is not the issue here, its the LACK of coaching. In other words, its the quantity of coaching, which ultimately has an impact on the overall quality of your coaching.

And lol at you re-posting the full skype convo thinking it validates anything. LMAO

The fact that this guy is trying to defend what he did is absolutely hillarious

[x] Student was offered a refund

[ ] Student received refund

Coaching should be something you take pride in and not some semi-scam.

"Pay dat man his maney".

If you didn't want to give him a refund you shouldn't have offered him one in the first place. Even if it hurts your current bankroll situation, think of what this does to your coaching image. Not to mention it's just super super scummy.

I didn't post the whole convo thinking it "validates anything" I posted it because I wanted people to see the bigger picture and have a better understanding of the whole thing.

You may be good at being a poker coach man but you suck big time

at being everything else by the looks of it.

You state that you have learned your lesson as far as refunds go ??

So are you saying you offered refunds in the past or have you ever

refunded anyone before this ??

Man youve really shot yourself in the foot here buddy you had some good

comments about being a coach and then you do this to the guy who

paid you up front for a service and you didnt come up with the goods.


Good luck in getting more students to coach man but it aint

looking to good after this

What do you think it changed?

AFAIK, OP posted all facts, all of which were true.

Its not hard to understand. You offered him a refund in the beginning if you skipped a session. You then skipped 2 sessions. You refuse to give him a refund even when you said you would. Are we missing something here??

we see the bigger picture alright , Stevie Wonder can see the bigger picture

Does 2+2 have a policy where they ban people like him, so others don't get scammed?

In my opinion this is just a lighter version of a scam.

scam? I am more than happy to finish up the coaching sessions bung paid for. If he chooses not to accept it he is "scamming" himself.