How are they supposed to improve their game if they can no longer analyze their hand histories? The replayer will not even show you own VPIP/PFR by position!

If I understood the announcement correctly, hand histories are supposed to disappear completely, instead of just having opponents' names removed (this would be enough to render HUDs that rely on hand histories useless).

So the whole purpose of the change seems to be to make it more difficult to become a winning player, not easier. And no type of player is going to benefit from the change.

As to whether this makes sense for Party - it's a difficult question. Their profits come from losing and breakeven players. Losers are the ones depositing money, and breakeven players prevent fish from winning big and cashing out their winnings. So the question is, how many losing/breakeven players are going to leave Party after the change. Time will tell.

Just don't fool yourself about the change "helping" any players - it will make it more difficult to win for everybody.

You don't need your VPIP/PFR or your oponents VPIP/PFR to improve your game.

Removing names is easier and more reliable way to get rid of huds. However partypoker is against anonymous poker. I don't like it either.

Very good players will benefit. Their edge over weak and average regs will get bigger. Recreational players will benefit as well. Unibet Andrew said it's a case on Unibet.

Casual players also do not lose their money faster, quite the opposite. (URL)

You didn't understand it correctly. Hand histories will be viewable from the client with player names showing and I'm confident it won't take more than few days before there is a converter for the new system and HUDs will be back as well.

Rather than keep reiterating the fact that somebody will find a way to beat the system - why don't you voice your opinion that you are not in support for the changes?

I'm not really against the changes but there are problems. And it's still a valid point that some of these changes won't prevent anything. And if you make things too strict, many multi-tablers might stop playing and any site needs also multi-tablers to play unless they want to kill all action from their site.

Pro: Seating scripts stop working

Pro/con: datamining/PTR etc stop working. Pro because you shouldn't have info available from hands that you didn't participate in. Con because it will be more difficult to detect bots. And yes, there are bots on every site out there and sites are not able to detect them without players' help. That's been proven and doesn't apply to Party alone.

HUDs divide opinions. I use one and it's a big part why I can still play poker professionally so obviously I'm for them. It's also not realistic to assume that a site could prevent all of their players from using one which is the reason Party isn't outright banning HUDs

Table scanners/not showing SN before cards are dealt: Can understand why Party wants to prevent people from using table scanners. As long as there is a way to manage tables, I don't mind the change.

Also bringing out this update without having a filter for CCG, the find seat button offering CCG while you are already seated at other tables shows that this update wasn't again thought out properly. Also the "my waitlist" function is good but has several bugs. It also offers CCG tables, the seats and min player amounts reset to default if you change the stake, the rule you set is always deleted after first (often CCG) table is offered etc

I meant specifically the HUD part. Obviously you are against getting rid of them, and you should voice your opinion more.

Furthermore I think it's far more unfair if there is some sort of converter created which only a certain group of players have access to which allows them to continue using the HUD. Stupid to say, oh we will take measures to make it harder for people to use it, but if you find a way to still use it GO AHEAD.

If it is commercially available easily for anyone as you said will happen, then I don't see any purpose whatsoever behind this change. They are wasting their time.

Either way, if you are against it should voice your opinion more. Rather than keep reiterating that somebody will find a way... we all know that... and it either defeats the purpose, or creates a more unfair environment.

I've voiced my concerns directly to Party.

I think the changes they made are enough and they should not go forward with the HH change.

They should fix the waitlist bugs and CCG filters ASAP

Glad to hear that. It's unfortunate our opinions don't matter much to them, when we have played millions of hands and raked so much money on their site.

I am not going to deny that it is in my own personal interest to keep the HUD. But I really do firmly believe as well that it will lead to less multi-tabling, less reg-on-reg action, less tournament registration, less breakeven/rakeback or slightly winning players playing here, and more bots/collusion.

Lol at this... you definetely need info about you game in order to improve! There may be othwer ways to improve aswell that don't require HH's, but it's definetely an important part of the study if you want to improve.

You need it but there are other ways... Interesting... So you don't need it.

It's important part for you. There are players who don't use huds and/or trackers and doing well. It just looks it's their time on partypoker.

Before anything there's no such a thing as right to improve, neither should be. Simply find a room that offers downloadable hand histories so you can improve the way you prefer and be happy.

thank you

Partypoints are being credited 2 per 1 euro in rake, even on Party.

Livechat "were not updated on the matter"

Colette??

Partypoints being credited with Party cashier's dollar to euro rate at the moment. Checked day by day and it started after Thursday's update.

$100 = 85.25 eur there at the moment which is $1.173 per euro

I raked $112.95 today which is 96.29 euros with that rate. That doubled is 192.58 and I got 193 partypoints today...

Already let Party know.

So you think it was a mistake or just hope it was?

I'm just saying what's going on

Let's hope for everyone's sake that this is some weird bug and not the other thing..

I was talking about removing names from downloaded hand histories only. So that you could still analyze your own game, but not gain statistics on your opponents. And you would still see opponent names while playing.

This would solve the "unfair advantage" problem Party is pretending to solve without making poker anonymous.

Mind you, even just removing player names would be a bad change - someone would just write an OCR tool that records hand histories by looking at what happens on the screen. Only that instead of being available to everyone for purchase, such a tool would only be accessible to a limited few. A much unfairer advantage IMO.

And players would lose the possibility of policing the games and detecting bots/colluders. The only thing poker networks are actively policing for is chipdumping - because this way, stolen credit cards get cashed out, which produces direct losses to the operator. Without hand histories, scammers would be virtually undetectable. Not exactly a "fair, level playing field"

However if it's not a weird bug then it means decrease in rakeback from 23,53% to 20,82% for 13% as of today if I'm not mistaken.

100 USD = 88 EUR at the moment, by the way.

I know but party takes 3% exchange fee

Oh, I see. So it would mean even bigger hit than I thought. Over 16%.

EDIT: For some reason it's actually even bigger than that too. I got 320 points instead of 408 points for $204 in rake today. That's almost 22% decrease meaning you have to pay ~$2593 in rake instead of $2125 if you want to buy $500 prize. So let's just hope it's a weird bug, I guess.

Must be a cash game bug. I'm getting correct rate for MTT's. $1 rake = 2 Party Points

"You have reached your daily purchase limit for the following item/s $100 Cash."

Why is there a limit of only one/day for redeeming a cash reward in the Points Store?

FYP

When did Party stop allowing SN changes? (every 180 days or w/e it was)

About 3 months ago.

Haha I don't check this forum often but every time I do there always seems to be technical issues and I'm not even reading more than 2 or 3 pages.