Basically, Thread title should be changed to: **How Many Unicorns Frolicked through Forests in 2016??**

^^

I think the #1 most important skill in 2016 for poker is game selection and sitting your ego down.
I am not saying to 100% bumhunt, but seek out the sites that have better pools and be aware of checking the lobby to keep an eye out for better games.

Interesting discussion. Given the softness of live cash, why haven't more switched over? Is it just mainly due to location and availability of casinos?

Here in the U.S. the cash is still very soft in the casinos, especially Florida and LA. Again, just curious on the gang's thoughts on switching to live.

Thanks,

Are you saying that pros in the us or canada or those that relocated outside the us... 1/2 of them are not making 60k? And the average is probably more like 20-30k then? Obviously for non north american countries, that number can be much lower and its good enough to be in that country.


I assume before BF, many pros made 60k a year minimum and that probably could have been done at 100nl and 200nl.


So basically very few are even making average income nowadays? I was shocked when you said a very tiny few make more than 60k now.

i obv don't have hard numbers but generally yes, id say very few are actually ma'king more than 60k in todays climate. games are drier, regs are tougher, bonuses/ rb has been slashed, everyone is playing lower.

i agree pro bf lots of grinders were making more than 60k a year. but that was also a period where games were great, skill dif between regs was big, bonuses/ rb were huge, and the average pros stake was a lot higher than it is today.

as far as pros struggling to make average income- all you have to look at is how many pros from first world countries have dropped out/ moved and have been replaced by pros living in developing countries.

its not worth it for the average pro to continuing playing poker- poker income is worth roughly half of what a person with a real job makes- meaning a desk job that pays 50k is that same as a poker pro making 100k. roughly

The people in threads like these still saying "just work harder" are peddling the lowest form of perversion and their motives for saying it must be carefully questioned. Your average new sign up today has about a 0% chance of ever making any significant money from poker. That's zero percent. The market's continued existence at all in its current form is baffling given that anyone who can make anything in poker today can utterly dominate near illimitable other fields.

Pokerstars just raised rake on NL50 HU zoom from about 12bb/100 to about 15bb/100. Wanna break even? Your opponents, all of them, need to be losing at least 30bb/100 from here to eternity. Wanna make anything worthwhile? Bump that figure up to 40bb/100 loss rates. You'll be playing quite a few pros too, so bump the loss rate for the rubes up to 50bb/100, heads up, one on one. 50 bb/100. You know what a loss rate like that feels like? Playing three card monte with a convicted con man. Like cheating. Like a game rigged beyond the most paranoid rigtard's delirious nightmares . The rubes will run to the nearest slot machine with open arms when faced with gambles that bad. Now gee wiz Mr. Wilson, where'd all the fish go? These reptilian ******s aren't just killing the golden goose, they're jackbooting its face into the cement with sadistic abandon. And the competition follows suit.

Why would any rational actor start taking poker seriously in 2016? They wouldn't, under any circumstances. They would recognize it as the foul tar pit it is and would exercise no restraint in distancing themselves as quickly and as far as possible from its rancid allure.

Because I'd rather get a real job that play live.

the moment they deposit they are drawing dead. i guess a person could argue a random fish 5+ years ago was drawing dead too... but during those times they could actually go on 10-15bi upswings. these days they rarely even win a stack

a few of the top pros said they will be lucky to clear 300k this year. These are pros who are in the top .001%, top 15 players in the world. at what point do we just come out and say online poker is one huge pyramid scheme.

Who said they would be lucky to clear 300k?

tree fiddy obv....

This post sure sounds good...but if its true, why are there so many threads in Poker Goals and Challengers from guys eagerly starting out, jaded guys heavily in make up talking about how they cant wait to slave for their stable overlords, etc. While other posters lap it up and call them heroes....Its pathetic :/

There is a statistic used by blackjack card counters called 'CE' or certainty equivalent, which is basically how much would you have to be paid to abstain from a gambling opportunity. And in your example it is around 50% usually.

Well if you know the poker player will make 100K then its not really a gamble and I'd want about 200K to do the desk job.

The problem is that the poker player can make anywhere from -20K to +220K, so in comparison the 50K desk job looks quite attractive.

These threads are so weird/ saddening. People talking about how sitting around in a casino fur 45 hours a week is some sort of great opportunity and/or lamenting the horror of a desk job like that's the only other possible thing they can do with their lives. Poker is pretty fn evil if that's how it warps perspectives


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If you are still planning on making a living playing online poker, you should rethink your position as soon as possible. I know how hard it is to stop, especially if it has been your job for a significant amount of time, but it will be worth it!

The games will continue to get worse which will eat away at your already diminished winrate, making negative swings even worse and more frequent. You are probably already in a constant state of stress, which affects your life greatly in many negative ways, and it will only get worse from here on out.

Shift your mindset to new things and find something you can be passionate about and then go do it. Stop torturing yourself right now and have a relaxing vacation because you deserve it!

Those threads are actually very easy. Some muppet tells you "poker is great, so much money, just need to work v hard". Then another muppet tells you "this industry is doomed, scale out asap".

Now all you got to do is to look up their signup dates at 2+2 and you got all information you need to proceed accordingly

Yw!

disregard.

Poker is still easy as **** online to make 100k

Easy like 123

Is there still a decent chance to make millions in poker these days?

I don't know about other parts of the world but in North America if you put the kind of effort and focus into business that you put into poker you can easily earn in the 6 figures. Unless fame and fortune are still a reasonable outcome of putting effort into poker I don't see why anyone in North America would even bother at this point.

It's almost as if some people play poker for reasons other than trying to become a professional.

For me, it was the desk job in financial markets that "warped" my perspective. I gave it up and became an English teacher long before I knew much about poker.

Other than that I agree with your whole post. 45 hours in a casino per week would suck. Being in any entertainment venue for that long but working rather than being entertained would be annoying - the ladies forum has a thread where various pros complain about men in casinos acting like they're in a bar rather than a serious workplace - while there are special problems for female players it would be annoying for me too but it's an entertainment venue rather than a serious workplace.

Playing online 45 hours per week would suck after a while too. Fortunately, as you say, there are other lifestyle options besides a desk job and "grinding".

I play as a serious recreational (I've raked about 100 euros so far this month). I had no lessons this morning so I put in a session and finished 100 euros up. That still feels good to do in a couple of hours before going into work. Before the poker I had a game of Battlechess and I won for the first time with the Trompowsky Attack, which I've been learning. That felt good too though of course there is no money. If you are at the point where you don't enjoy winning at poker any more because its just work then you need to rebalance your life.

Speaking for myself, poker was worth taking seriously.

i'd take 60k cash vs 30k at a real job any day of the week
there are lots of good reasons not to get into poker. some ****ty 30k job isn't one of them.

Um because lol live pros are going to be having similar problems in ~5 years. I got into this in the lls wr thread. Basically the main stake for a pro is probably 2/5. (5/10 is shrinking outside of places like LA. Ffs even 5/10 in Vegas is dying)

A top 2/5 pro might make $50/hr. Some tools will say they make more but it's an outlier. That's only 100k if they put in full 2k hours which very few pros actually do. Remember that's only really 50k yr and oh ya haven't even talked about how toxic being in a casino / around degens 2k hours a year can be

Borg you are missing my point. I'm saying poker pros are ****ing stupid and have sold themselves / their potential for a measly 30k/ yr lifestyle. What kind of moron aspires to a lol "career" that brings in a 30k yr lifestyle?