thanks for your concern and direction, but I was asking a sincere question. I'm sorry if it didn't live up to your expectations.

I never played UB so this does not effect me, but if the feds get the case they will want all the hand and account histories through time. Just think of all the stuff that drags up. The IRS going after folks failing to declare wins, the transfer of funds to foreigners or any transfer over 10k without the proper fileing, the potential for other crooks being caught money laundering and the impact that has on the UIGA debate. Its not all wonderfull if it goes to the feds.

In my opinion there is no chance that the FBI would sit around looking at every hand history played on UB. I think that in order for the FBI to get interested in this they would need the evidence handed to them... they are not going to go fishing through UB's files on the behalf of some online poker players.

Also, if the FBI looked into Hamilton and friends there is no reason to think that means that the IRS would start auditing poker players. Maybe a poster here as experience working for the govt but I think that you are making a pretty big leap to assume that information would be understood by the FBI and that the FBI would care about the taxes that random poker players pay and that information would flow seemlessly between departments of the American government.

Now... if online poker is legalized in this country then the IRS might take interest but I can not fathom a scenario where an investigation into Russ Hamilton resulted in an unrelated poker player's cashout history being analyzed. Then again, I have no direct experience with the FBI so what do I know...

Gobbomom:

The US Government has jurisdiction because, among other reasons, many of the victims of the scam were located in the United States. Presumably some of the perpetrators were in the US as well. In general, the US Government has very broad jurisdiction which covers anything it would possibly be interested in pursuing. And online poker is probably not illegal per se (meaning that merely running an online poker site, or playing on it, doesn't violate federal law -- which isn't the same thing as saying that the sites are not violating state and federal laws in their day-to-day operations).


Cornell:

I worked against, not for the Government but here's my reasonably well-informed opinion. There's no way to know whether the FBI would be interested in the case, I think they would, it involves a huge amount of money, it's an interesting subject matter, and there could be political reasons for pursuing the case as well. And having to review extensive paperwork has never deterred the federal government from pursuing anything, ever. The problem is that I assume UB would not be willing to cooperate, so the feds would have to be willing to use whatever coercive tactics they could employ to force them to cooperate (such as threatening to launch a full-scale investigation into the methods by which they get money from US customers).

As for whether there would be a spillover into other violations of federal law like tax evasion, there's really no way to know, but it's certainly possible that when confronted with evidence that many US citizens under the age of 25 were in possession of hundreds of thousands of dollars it's not inconceivable that someone would attempt to determine whether these people were paying their taxes.

Wow so this is really how UB is going to end their investigation. I was hoping for a little more clarity and explanation of how this happened and how it was now being prevented. Until them I will remain a "never played at UB/AP/Cereus" player.

Maybe due to the embarrassment caused to UB/Tokwiro they may just make those who caused the problem to disappear.....NEVER to be heard of again.

Holes in the desert so to speak.

If the FBI does get involved, at the very least, you can expect them to make examples of a few high profile targets and a few unknowns, so that it doesn't look like they are making an example of high profile targets. It will be the luck of the draw, just like it was with Napster. They will have to go after people for income tax evasion and illegal or unreported large fund transfers. Feels good to be a micro fish for a change.

Dear UltimateBet,

Please give me the $35,000 that you allowed your Cheaters to STEAL from me.

Thank you :-)

I'd say the Feds are absolutely interested.

Russ Hamilton & Co. (assuming current rumors are true), likely all American citizens, conspired to defraud dozens to hundreds of victims, many (if not most) of whom are American citizens, many times, I'm sure, while all parties were on American soil. Think RICO. And it is ridiculous to think the IRS isn't going to get involved if (when) the DOJ gets going on it.

They know that because of the Kawnehawke (sp) regulation (weak as it appears to be) and the terms of the sale to Tokwira (sp), evidence is not likely to disappear or be altered. They'll let these "investigations" go where they will, then come in and get busy.

They don't want to put their advertising revenue in jeopardy!

The Feds get involved with things on a much smaller scale than this.

I have only recently been following the UB scandal and am now pretty up to date on it.

My one question is this. From my reading of 2+2 it seems that the KGC either failed to regulate properly by knowing the cheating was going on and allowing it to happen, did not know the cheating was going on but was ignorant of the situation, or was in on it. Am i correct on one of these 3 notions or am i missing something.

Also, if it was one of these 3 things.....isn't the KGC the same regulatory arm used by Full Tilt?

supadphat,

you haven't read closely enough. kgc owns ub and ap......

Paul claimed that after the KGC and their independent auditor reviewed the data they compiled that they plan on pursuing legal action against the perpetrators and he plans for the names to be publicized. So I think theres a possibility that at sometime in the future we will know who was at least brought to court. We should expect refunds within the next several weeks. Apparently the independent investigator needs to take a look at the info they compiled. All player names will be listed in their next statement on this within the next couple of weeks along with refunds. The cheating dates back to 2004 again didnt give me a specific date but said it would be released in the statement.

Not quite, the Isle of Man and Kanhawake are both licensing entities which applied to the UK (United Kingdom != Isle of Man) Gambling Commission for white list status which would allow gambling sites licensed by them to advertise on UK TV etc. The IoM was accepted, Kahnawake was rejected (twice I think though they are going to have another go).

The IoM isn't part of the UK but is a 'Crown Protectorate' (I think) which allows them to (for instance) have much lower business taxes for e.g. online gaming sites.

Correct Tod, Rollo has got it a bit confused. Remember the fuss KGC made when they were excluded from the White List - LOL now.

IoM has to follow British Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man#Government

Kahnawake makes up it's own laws and has criminal elements

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=251958

My understanding is Tokwiro/AP/UB applied with the IoM
which proves even Injun Joe knows Kanhawake licensing
is a sham and nearly damn worthless

Thanks for the correction fatshaft - you gotta almost be an International Gaming Lawyer to sort out these online gaming
license entities - btw any luck with your investigation in IoM?

I am surprised Monaco isn't getting in on it - The King could always use a few extra duckets

Has anyone from 2+2 (who was cheated out of money) actually contacted the FBI about this?

This is fraud after all.

I've not read all of the background on Russ Hamilton, but has he not been implicated with being tied to organized crime?

Pretty sure this would interest the FBI.......

Have they or will they ever release actual screen names implicated because i playd on ub back then and playd at one point there highest cash games. Plus if ub thinks it was only cash games that were cheated there morons tournys would be the easiest way for these morons to cheat and get away with it for as long as they did.

Obv once the story breaks on 60mins., the gov will be obliged to respond somehow, be it an FBI investigation, or an official washing of their hands. I think one of the things slowing movement on this is the election. NO ONE wants online gambling to be a hot-button campaign issue.

The thing is

1. WHO ARE THE OWNERS????

2. They only started actively trying to find all the names when they realized that they could not keep lying to us last month, otherwise it sure as hell would have been found out in the "months" that they were looking before.

3. Who are the cheaters???

4. Has anyone thats had a ub account and closed it been refunded?

Im sure there are many more points I missed so much wrong with this whole fiasco.

guy

Good point!

I have contacted the FBI several times. I highlighted those suspicious real estate transactions ( a house doesn't go up in price in 10 years?) that stink of money laundering.

In one of the other UB threads someone said they had talked to an FBI Agent who said the FBI was aware of the situation but would not be making any major moves in any cases until the election was over.

Some other people who should be really pissed are Howard L., Phil Ivey, Chris F. and other owners of sites. When the government starts taking down people like Russ Hamilton and Phil Hellmuth, the owners of other sites will likely be swept up too.

This FBI is perhaps the most political ever leading senate democrats to actually call John Ashcroft the "voice of reason". You know, the John Ashcroft who wrote the Patriot act, the guy who lost a senate seat to a dead guy. Now that speedy gonzales is gone, the guys who are there are mainly occupying seats and trying figure out how the US came to bless using chinese water torture on falafel vendors caught up in an afghani sandstorm.

Also, I have a feeling Russ H. was really sort of a Limited Hangout on this deal and isn't really the evil genius here. Of course, I also don't believe that party is going to be outed because its likely current management still has to speak to them irrespective of what all the fabulous PR says and the newfound respect amongst some of the more prominent forumers.