Our? I don't follow the details of this, but wasn't their investigation sparked by a 2+2 member's investigation?

it troubles me that UB can't even use the same terminology in its press releases:

i have to assume that by "player accounts" UB means to use the new terminology of simply "accounts".

i also have to assume that by "account names" UB means to use the new terminology of "usernames".

so have the 19 accounts been revealed by UB or 2p2?

i only see one account named by UB: nionio.

is this right? we only know of one? the rest are usernames?

jebus.

wow, that is a lot of accounts, and a lot of user names. i wonder how much money they actually stole? UB and AP superusers combined, over $5 Million? over 10 Million? Do we know how much they have refunded in total? Has anyone ever totaled up the profits of the superusers, using MPI?

Actually, this is a funny point that you bring up.

The concern about illicit software was discussed in the twoplustwo thread starting on January 8th and its existence and use were proven beyond any reasonable doubt within 24 hours of its speculated use.

In UltimateBet's May 29th press release (quoted directly below) they included a timeline that said that even though they had read the twoplustwo thread and even though UltimateBet and the KGC and Tokwiro were investigating the matter they were actually not aware of the superuser accounts until February:


UltimateBet's May 29th press release

Did they post the names of the 88 usernames?

gah, they change management, conduct a huge investigation, give lots of refunds, close loopholes, block players, release a ton of statements etc etc but nobody on 2+2 ever says anything positive

believe me the current management makes money off UB and AP without having to resort to cheating, and they wanna get this fixed up.. (especially with all the public pressure on them thanks to 2+2)

well, let's just say, hypothetically, that Leggett/UB admit they pooched this from the get-go; they really fscked it up and they are certain that it won't get studied at the world's finest MBA programs under crisis management.

ok, so they know they really messed up and they know they've gotta try to make amends to get old players back and keep new players coming in. right?

so, where the fsck are the 19 account names and 88 usernames?

and i don't buy this bullshiet about, "Well, they are going to be pursuing criminal charges. they gotta keep those under wraps until those are filed."

when UB starts being more transparent in their admissions (of guilt) then maybe someone here will pat them on the back and say, "attaboy!"

until that time, they are suspect and undeserving.

lolz and now UB and AP are gonna combine their scandalous cheating ways in one super ghey superuser network

here's UB's previous admissions:
May 29, 2008
1. NioNio
2. Sleepless
3. NoPaddles
4. nvtease
5. flatbroke33
6. ilike2win
7. UtakeIt2
8. FlipFlop2
9. erick456
10. WhackMe44
11. RockStarLA
12. stoned2nite
13. monizzle
14. FireNTexas
15. HeadKase01
16. LetsPatttty
17. NYMobser
18. WhoWhereWhen

July 8, 2008
1. Crackcorn55
2. WhakMe
3. GrabBag123
4. gravitation
5. Bgroup
6. H_Curtis
7. Twenty 1
8. WacoManiac
9. Broke_In_L_A
10. ShaqTack
11. BlueBerry101
12. HolyMucker
13. 55WasHere
14. Xnomas
15. dannyboy55
16. Indy05
17. SlimPikins2

35 total.

lol

This looks identical to the way the Potripper account cheated.

Also, what's a reasonable estimate of the average amount won by each account? $100,000? That would add up to nearly $9 million.

According to their report there was an elaborate scheme of transfers to get the money off the site. Freddy Deeb had a large amount of transfers going through his account according to othere posts from people investigating this mess. There may be one name for everyone clammoring for them. Of course that is just speculation.

I am reasonably certain that Freddy Deeb is innocent in all of this and that you are referring to the -Fred- account which does NOT belong to Freddie Deeb.

So you are harsh on 2+2 for being too critical, yet thankful that we were critical in the first place?

Don't have sympathy for anyone at UB/AP

Lol, ignore thesnowflake. At least 1,100 of his posts are super pro UltimateBet to the point of insanity.

He is either a troll or a shill because nobody could follow this whole scandal as closely as he does and still make statements that are so detached from reality.

Holy greed, Batman! That's a lot of accounts.

So they are turning over their findings to the gaming commision that is liscenced by the cheif who owns the sites under investigation?
The only thing they could ever do to ever look legit would be to move everything to Isle of man or Malta / have them go through everything / make all recommended changes as per Man or Malta recommendation/ disclose all
findings from above audits / have new audits performed / apply for licsense.
Refund the cheated.

Kanhawake was rejected by Isle of Man (Thank G-d)

Lets stop with the one-liner jokes and funny photos that tend to bog down such threads everyone.
I've started a new thread with my thoughts on this here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=261361

so when are they gonna release the full list of the superuser screennames?

I don't understand the thought that the U.S. government should/ would prosecute in this case. The U.S. government has no jurisdiction do they? How could, and why would they prosecute ONLY the illegal superusers? The whole operation is illegal in the U.S.

Has Johnny Bax/Cliff Josephy commented on the situation anywhere recently?

Do you have proof of that? I couldn't get that when I talked to the IOM Minister. He couldn't comment.

Sorry I meant to include this link - my bad

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-173657548.html

8 minutes it took you to go from (paraphrased) "they are being truthful and accurate" to finding the first huge inconsistancy. I hope more come out soon (including the timeframe previously released being contradicted).

Fwiw, that is the number 1 question, beyond why did it take so long, why did it take so much longer to find the different usernames of the accounts when we know the accounts themselves have the username changes listed.

Also, the whole thing about them investigating cheating on the site, then handing the results to themselves, who will pass it to the independent investigator who has worked with the site previously. I mean, really?

There was a TV show here in the UK called "Yes Minister" (later "Yes Prime Minister"). There is a famous bit by a character who is an aide to the Minister of the show which basically says 'the first rule of an investigation is you do not carry one out until you are sure what the result will be'.

Can anyone really think what we have been given as a press release is more than a PR move? There are far too many inconsistancies and half truths that it cannot be the truth surely.

And it pisses me off so much that no major poker publication is making this stuff aware to the average player. Unless you knew better its SO easy to think this wasnt even as close to being as bad as it really is simply because Cardplayer etc are not out there saying why they have concerns with what happened.