Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28)

07-28-2008 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
We cannot over-emphasize the fact that Tokwiro and its entire management team had no knowledge of the illicit software until it was revealed by our investigation
.
Our? I don't follow the details of this, but wasn't their investigation sparked by a 2+2 member's investigation?
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:31 PM
it troubles me that UB can't even use the same terminology in its press releases:

Quote:
March 2008: Six player accounts are confirmed to have participated in this scheme. No accounts were deleted at any point, although some account names were changed multiple times. The following account names are known to have been used in the fraudulent activity: NioNio, Sleepless, NoPaddles, nvtease, flatbroke33, ilike2win, UtakeIt2, FlipFlop2, erick456, WhackMe44, RockStarLA, stoned2nite, monizzle, FireNTexas, HeadKase01, LetsPatttty, NYMobser, and WhoWhereWhen.
i have to assume that by "player accounts" UB means to use the new terminology of simply "accounts".

i also have to assume that by "account names" UB means to use the new terminology of "usernames".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji
Unless they are saying 6 of those accounts were Russ Hamilton or something like that then that is a lot of different people cheating...
so have the 19 accounts been revealed by UB or 2p2?

i only see one account named by UB: nionio.

is this right? we only know of one? the rest are usernames?

jebus.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:36 PM
wow, that is a lot of accounts, and a lot of user names. i wonder how much money they actually stole? UB and AP superusers combined, over $5 Million? over 10 Million? Do we know how much they have refunded in total? Has anyone ever totaled up the profits of the superusers, using MPI?
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolution
Quote:
We cannot over-emphasize the fact that Tokwiro and its entire management team had no knowledge of the illicit software until it was revealed by our investigation
Our? I don't follow the details of this, but wasn't their investigation sparked by a 2+2 member's investigation?

Actually, this is a funny point that you bring up.

The concern about illicit software was discussed in the twoplustwo thread starting on January 8th and its existence and use were proven beyond any reasonable doubt within 24 hours of its speculated use.

In UltimateBet's May 29th press release (quoted directly below) they included a timeline that said that even though they had read the twoplustwo thread and even though UltimateBet and the KGC and Tokwiro were investigating the matter they were actually not aware of the superuser accounts until February:


UltimateBet's May 29th press release

Quote:
Investigation Timeline
These are the key events in the course of the incident.

* January 2008: UltimateBet is alerted to suspicions of unfair play on the part of the account "NioNio". Within 24 hours, UltimateBet contacts the KGC to provide formal notice that UltimateBet has initiated an investigation of the incident. UltimateBet subsequently forwarded a copy of all related data to the KGC.

* January 2008: The "NioNio" account and related accounts are suspended pending further investigation.

* February 2008: Preliminary findings indicate abnormally high winning statistics for the suspect accounts. After discussions with the KGC, UltimateBet engages third-party gaming experts to assist with the analysis.

* February 2008: Investigators confirm that the suspect accounts are associated with individuals who had worked for UltimateBet under the previous ownership.

* February 2008: UltimateBet discovers the unauthorized code that allowed the perpetrators to obtain hole card information during live play. The code was part of a legacy auditing system that was manipulated by the perpetrators of the fraud.

* February 2008: UltimateBet immediately removes the unauthorized code and works with the KGC and with third-party auditors to verify that the security hole has been eliminated.

* March 2008: Six player accounts are confirmed to have participated in this scheme. No accounts were deleted at any point, although some account names were changed multiple times. The following account names are known to have been used in the fraudulent activity: NioNio, Sleepless, NoPaddles, nvtease, flatbroke33, ilike2win, UtakeIt2, FlipFlop2, erick456, WhackMe44, RockStarLA, stoned2nite, monizzle, FireNTexas, HeadKase01, LetsPatttty, NYMobser, and WhoWhereWhen.

* May 2008: The investigation confirms that the fraudulent activity took place from March 7, 2006 to December 3, 2007.

* May 2008: Gaming Associates certifies that the software code that enabled unfair play was removed from UltimateBet servers in February of 2008.

* May 2008: Customers affected by this incident are identified, and plans for corrective action are reviewed with the KGC.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:39 PM
Did they post the names of the 88 usernames?
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:40 PM
gah, they change management, conduct a huge investigation, give lots of refunds, close loopholes, block players, release a ton of statements etc etc but nobody on 2+2 ever says anything positive

believe me the current management makes money off UB and AP without having to resort to cheating, and they wanna get this fixed up.. (especially with all the public pressure on them thanks to 2+2)
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnowflake
gah, they change management, conduct a huge investigation, give lots of refunds, close loopholes, block players, release a ton of statements etc etc but nobody on 2+2 ever says anything positive

believe me the current management makes money off UB and AP without having to resort to cheating, and they wanna get this fixed up.. (especially with all the public pressure on them thanks to 2+2)
well, let's just say, hypothetically, that Leggett/UB admit they pooched this from the get-go; they really fscked it up and they are certain that it won't get studied at the world's finest MBA programs under crisis management.

ok, so they know they really messed up and they know they've gotta try to make amends to get old players back and keep new players coming in. right?

so, where the fsck are the 19 account names and 88 usernames?

and i don't buy this bullshiet about, "Well, they are going to be pursuing criminal charges. they gotta keep those under wraps until those are filed."

when UB starts being more transparent in their admissions (of guilt) then maybe someone here will pat them on the back and say, "attaboy!"

until that time, they are suspect and undeserving.

Last edited by sellthekids; 07-28-2008 at 04:50 PM. Reason: don't type angry!
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:50 PM
lolz and now UB and AP are gonna combine their scandalous cheating ways in one super ghey superuser network
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_V
Did they post the names of the 88 usernames?
here's UB's previous admissions:
May 29, 2008
1. NioNio
2. Sleepless
3. NoPaddles
4. nvtease
5. flatbroke33
6. ilike2win
7. UtakeIt2
8. FlipFlop2
9. erick456
10. WhackMe44
11. RockStarLA
12. stoned2nite
13. monizzle
14. FireNTexas
15. HeadKase01
16. LetsPatttty
17. NYMobser
18. WhoWhereWhen

July 8, 2008
1. Crackcorn55
2. WhakMe
3. GrabBag123
4. gravitation
5. Bgroup
6. H_Curtis
7. Twenty 1
8. WacoManiac
9. Broke_In_L_A
10. ShaqTack
11. BlueBerry101
12. HolyMucker
13. 55WasHere
14. Xnomas
15. dannyboy55
16. Indy05
17. SlimPikins2

35 total.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnowflake
gah, they change management, conduct a huge investigation, give lots of refunds, close loopholes, block players, release a ton of statements etc etc but nobody on 2+2 ever says anything positive

believe me the current management makes money off UB and AP without having to resort to cheating, and they wanna get this fixed up.. (especially with all the public pressure on them thanks to 2+2)
lol
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
The account that was used to view hole cards never actually played in a game. Instead, the perpetrators used hole card information gained from logging in with this account while playing on other accounts, which thereby benefited from the cheating.
This looks identical to the way the Potripper account cheated.

Also, what's a reasonable estimate of the average amount won by each account? $100,000? That would add up to nearly $9 million.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:05 PM
According to their report there was an elaborate scheme of transfers to get the money off the site. Freddy Deeb had a large amount of transfers going through his account according to othere posts from people investigating this mess. There may be one name for everyone clammoring for them. Of course that is just speculation.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boscoe1
According to their report there was an elaborate scheme of transfers to get the money off the site. Freddy Deeb had a large amount of transfers going through his account according to othere posts from people investigating this mess. There may be one name for everyone clammoring for them. Of course that is just speculation.
I am reasonably certain that Freddy Deeb is innocent in all of this and that you are referring to the -Fred- account which does NOT belong to Freddie Deeb.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnowflake
gah, they change management, conduct a huge investigation, give lots of refunds, close loopholes, block players, release a ton of statements etc etc but nobody on 2+2 ever says anything positive

believe me the current management makes money off UB and AP without having to resort to cheating, and they wanna get this fixed up.. (especially with all the public pressure on them thanks to 2+2)
So you are harsh on 2+2 for being too critical, yet thankful that we were critical in the first place?

Don't have sympathy for anyone at UB/AP
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesnowflake
gah, they change management, conduct a huge investigation, give lots of refunds, close loopholes, block players, release a ton of statements etc etc but nobody on 2+2 ever says anything positive

believe me the current management makes money off UB and AP without having to resort to cheating, and they wanna get this fixed up.. (especially with all the public pressure on them thanks to 2+2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird24
So you are harsh on 2+2 for being too critical, yet thankful that we were critical in the first place?

Don't have sympathy for anyone at UB/AP

Lol, ignore thesnowflake. At least 1,100 of his posts are super pro UltimateBet to the point of insanity.

He is either a troll or a shill because nobody could follow this whole scandal as closely as he does and still make statements that are so detached from reality.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:28 PM
Holy greed, Batman! That's a lot of accounts.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:32 PM
So they are turning over their findings to the gaming commision that is liscenced by the cheif who owns the sites under investigation?
The only thing they could ever do to ever look legit would be to move everything to Isle of man or Malta / have them go through everything / make all recommended changes as per Man or Malta recommendation/ disclose all
findings from above audits / have new audits performed / apply for licsense.
Refund the cheated.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by peetar69
So they are turning over their findings to the gaming commision that is liscenced by the cheif who owns the sites under investigation?
The only thing they could ever do to ever look legit would be to move everything to Isle of man or Malta / have them go through everything / make all recommended changes as per Man or Malta recommendation/ disclose all
findings from above audits / have new audits performed / apply for licsense.
Refund the cheated.
Kanhawake was rejected by Isle of Man (Thank G-d)
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:55 PM
Lets stop with the one-liner jokes and funny photos that tend to bog down such threads everyone.
I've started a new thread with my thoughts on this here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=261361
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 06:25 PM
so when are they gonna release the full list of the superuser screennames?
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 06:39 PM
I don't understand the thought that the U.S. government should/ would prosecute in this case. The U.S. government has no jurisdiction do they? How could, and why would they prosecute ONLY the illegal superusers? The whole operation is illegal in the U.S.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 07:08 PM
Has Johnny Bax/Cliff Josephy commented on the situation anywhere recently?
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi
Kanhawake was rejected by Isle of Man (Thank G-d)
Do you have proof of that? I couldn't get that when I talked to the IOM Minister. He couldn't comment.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KotOD
Do you have proof of that? I couldn't get that when I talked to the IOM Minister. He couldn't comment.
Sorry I meant to include this link - my bad

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-173657548.html
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote
07-28-2008 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji
I have never said this about something that came out of Tokwiro before but on its face it seems like this press release is probably truthful and accurate about what happened in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornell Fiji
This comment should frustrate customers of UltimateBet greatly:




Lets pretend that we did not know that it was UltimateBet management and owners who did the cheating and lets pretend that the cheating was not extremely obvious to anyone who looked at the winrates and hand histories.

If we make those assumptions then we could understand why it might be possible for a new cheater to slip through the cracks during UltimateBet's 6 month investigation as the 'investigators' would have to be able to look at winrates or play styles or transactions orIP addresses or any other evidence...

However, what UltimateBet is saying here is that no new accounts were implicated.

On each account's administrative profile in the UltimateBet system there is something that says:

Date: Player XYZ signed up
Date: Player XYZ changed his home address
Date: Player XYZ registered a neteller account
Date: Player XYZ changed his screenname to PQR
Date: Player XYZ registered his bank account
Date: Player XYZ changed his screeenname to ABC
etc...


There is no way that UltimateBet can deny that they ever thought to look at the administrative profiles of the cheating accounts, especially after (in January) the evidence in the HSNL thread pointed out that the superusers had changed their screennames on numerous occasions.

I believe that the above statement that only new screennames were found is the most direct admission of a coverup by current management that we have seen during this entire scandal. There is no way that these new usernames were 'found.' These usernames were known all along. The only thing that changed is that UltimateBet realized that twoplustwo was going to find these screennames eventually so they might as well admit that they knew who they were all along.

Of course we all knew that they were covering up cheating accounts but this admission that they knew the accounts all along but they did not identify screennames in their previous statements is the first direct admission that the "new management" has made about covering up information.
8 minutes it took you to go from (paraphrased) "they are being truthful and accurate" to finding the first huge inconsistancy. I hope more come out soon (including the timeframe previously released being contradicted).

Fwiw, that is the number 1 question, beyond why did it take so long, why did it take so much longer to find the different usernames of the accounts when we know the accounts themselves have the username changes listed.

Also, the whole thing about them investigating cheating on the site, then handing the results to themselves, who will pass it to the independent investigator who has worked with the site previously. I mean, really?

There was a TV show here in the UK called "Yes Minister" (later "Yes Prime Minister"). There is a famous bit by a character who is an aide to the Minister of the show which basically says 'the first rule of an investigation is you do not carry one out until you are sure what the result will be'.

Can anyone really think what we have been given as a press release is more than a PR move? There are far too many inconsistancies and half truths that it cannot be the truth surely.

And it pisses me off so much that no major poker publication is making this stuff aware to the average player. Unless you knew better its SO easy to think this wasnt even as close to being as bad as it really is simply because Cardplayer etc are not out there saying why they have concerns with what happened.
UltimateBet Concludes Investigation. Eighty-Eight usernames implicated (7/28) Quote

      
m