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Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward?

03-24-2016 , 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
The money isnt gone yet but it will be couple of years from now. I work 250hours+/month for 8 years straight now and every month my hourly gets a hit. Its probably a third of wat it was with me getting better and better working harder and harder. Thats not v sustainable if you realistic and i want to be out once nl100 is considered midstakes, rakeback is zero and a good hourly is 10bucks. And this time will come and it will come alot quicker than people think
Global poker needs cash games segregated by wealth, for which the best available proxy is country of residence.

But everyone keeps banging on about global player pools, which means the hourly heads below $10 whatever happens to training sites, rake, rakeback, multi-tabling, HUDS, scripts, etc.

Those things still all need fixing (to improve fish lifetime value), but it won't affect the pro hourly, which is set by pro competition.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
The money isnt gone yet but it will be couple of years from now. I work 250hours+/month for 8 years straight now and every month my hourly gets a hit. Its probably a third of wat it was with me getting better and better working harder and harder. Thats not v sustainable if you realistic and i want to be out once nl100 is considered midstakes, rakeback is zero and a good hourly is 10bucks. And this time will come and it will come alot quicker than people think
You really need to take a hard look at your life if you are really playing 250 hours a month of poker. I play full time live and way less hours than that and am very happy with my life and the money I make. Live poker is still and will always be soft and very beatable for a long time.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by acescracked84
You really need to take a hard look at your life if you are really playing 250 hours a month of poker. I play full time live and way less hours than that and am very happy with my life and the money I make. Live poker is still and will always be soft and very beatable for a long time.
There is too much variance live given how slow it is in comparison to online. Over 100k hands for example anything can happen. You can get in 100k hands a month online easily, it might take you a few years live. I know winrates are much higher but the luck factor will be too high for many people.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _jimbo_
There is too much variance live given how slow it is in comparison to online. Over 100k hands for example anything can happen. You can get in 100k hands a month online easily, it might take you a few years live. I know winrates are much higher but the luck factor will be too high for many people.
you don't know what you're talking about
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 07:35 AM
tips to get in 100k hands online the easy way?
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete
you don't know what you're talking about
Which part? There is an enormous amount of variance in poker both live and online.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach999
tips to get in 100k hands online the easy way?
Well it's not easy but if you are treating it as a full time job, it's not unreasonable to set a target of 100k hands per month if your working 40 hours a week.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
The money isnt gone yet but it will be couple of years from now. I work 250hours+/month for 8 years straight now and every month my hourly gets a hit. Its probably a third of wat it was with me getting better and better working harder and harder. Thats not v sustainable if you realistic and i want to be out once nl100 is considered midstakes, rakeback is zero and a good hourly is 10bucks. And this time will come and it will come alot quicker than people think
You're working 9 hours a day, 7 days a week? That's an awful lot of hours just for a card game that probably won't be beatable online in a few years. How much per year are you making?
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
Ok, lets get something straight here:

I started playing recreationally in 2005 on europoker and i started playing for a living accidentally after finding no job after i quite.

In that entire time i havent had a single hour of coaching, not a single one. I dont even have software like teamviewer on my computer. I didnt give a single hour of coaching and i get alot of requests for it, or asked how to get started on facebook. I TELL EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM THAT IT ISNT MY INTEREST FOR THEM TO GET GOOD HENCE I WILL NOT SHARE ANY STRATEGY/ADVICE in any way.
In over 10 years of poker i was subscribed to DC for 2 months, thats it and until late mid last year i have never seen a video of leggo, RIO, Ivey League or whatever. I never subscribed with them either. RIO asked me twice and i told them GFY (LITERALLY) and alot more. I didnt even asked them how much i would get to be an instructor.

So please say about me whatever you want to but i was never in any way affiliated with any sort of education. And i wont ever be affiliated with any sort of education in a thing where you have the potential to earn ****loads of money bc its ultimatively not worth it
The worst thing i did was write a blog about my whereabouts AND IN RETROSPECT THAT BLOG PROBABLY DID MORE DAMAGE OVERALL THAN IT POLISHED MY EGO even though i gave pretty much close to zero advice there but may have motivated the one or other person to put in the extra work to make a life.

So please excuse me that i'm pissed off. I AM WHERE I AM BECAUSE I PUT IN THE WORK, i didnt watch a couple of videos, got a coach, a strategy skype group or whatever - was that smart? probably not but it was the way i chose to do things.

ONLINE POKER is going to crash and burn completely for anybody who is involved currently independant on what stakes you play by 2020. I realized that and i'm working on a way out. But yes, i'm pissed, because ultimatively it couldve been avoided if enough people would've not only looked 2 weeks ahead.


Rgd seatingscripts:
On Stars its not a borderline illegal tool, on Stars currently its clearcut legal. Before seating scripts i got every single jesus seat on my stakes bc i was so much better in handling the lobby than everybody else. Today i may get 25% of seats i want to get bc other guys are just closer to the server. Bc of seatingscripts i had ultimatively move back to europe in order to continue to play for a living (latency - adapt or die you know).
I also was one of the first ones to have a seating script. I told nobody, i didnt share it, i didnt sell it, nobody knew about it. That script had a random delay so that i would never instantly sit. However people started once again discussing aka educating other people here on 2+2 that some players might have seating scripts (those guys who were too greedy to implement a delay - HELLO SUBLIME). Instead of just stfu for once and get their own and make money while they can they decided once again to inform the entire community. 2 weeks later we had the first commerical script, 8 weeks later we had 4-5 official sites selling them and alot of underground coders.

if i learned one thing in 8 years of poker it is that people just cant stfu and enjoy what they have. And because of this every single one of us will end up with nothing in the end. and you know what people will learn out of this? NOTHING
oh cool so you were also a selfish piece of **** with a seating script which is something else that has also helped ruin the game. well done. hope you enjoyed the two weeks.or is it teh two weeks? i always forget whether or not I'm supposed to type "the" like a 14 year old girl.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 10:56 AM
adapt or die
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LETIGRA
No,

While i'm not a bcp member, I have learned a ton from gordon/thinkitthrough. And you cherry picked a horrible video. I can't find the link but if you ever see his youtube poker life balance video, it is life changing.

To say no one will make 100k is insane. A lot of his preaching/coaching is about being great, working long hours, not getting drunk/horsing around, and putting your 'all' into something to be 30X the person you are.

I'm a fixed limit aficionado else I would join his team but let me tell you about imagination:

Lots of doctors and surgeons attorneys architects work 60-90 hours a week in america. We agree right? How do they do that? One way is to be passionate about it and have a desire to be great.

Ok, forget that for a second and consider this: Ill bet you consider fixed limit holdem dead. Well not only can I make well over 30 bucks an hour at a dead game IN america, I am constantly studying cepheus to increase my hourly.

Someone who is lazy and not working hard is working 160 hrs a month. Well, that means you don't have a passion for what you do. Passionate people work way more than that.

Lets say you work i.e. grind poker 250 hours a month. That's 3000 hours a year. If your hourly is $34 you made over 100k.

You will say that's a billion hours and you have no life but go out in the real world and see how they don't give a crap to make you work 60 hours a week and pay you even less.

Yeah the 90 dollar hourlies of the past where you just smoke weed and play poker 25 hours a week are gone. But the money is not gone.
I sincerely hope you love poker to put in 3000 hours a year.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvr
adapt or die
individually yes. but collectively you all adapt and then die together killing the golden goose.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
In over 10 years of poker i was subscribed to DC for 2 months, thats it and until late mid last year i have never seen a video of leggo, RIO, Ivey League or whatever. I never subscribed with them either. RIO asked me twice and i told them GFY (LITERALLY) and alot more. I didnt even asked them how much i would get to be an instructor.
I get the idea that helping others hurts the poker ecosystem in the long term, but if all you care about is making money why would you not watch the videos yourself? Are you supposed to be taking some kind of principled stand against the poker training machine? Given how entitled and selfish you come across I highly doubt it.

Quote:
But yes, i'm pissed, because ultimatively it couldve been avoided if enough people would've not only looked 2 weeks ahead.
Training sites have been inevitable from the start and it's foolish to pretend otherwise. And before training sites there were books and of course the forums (where countless people including yours truly gave advice away for free!). If everybody thought the way you did perhaps things would be different, but who is to say that you would even be where you are at if the information age didn't exist? Poker is a deeply strategic game where significant money can be won if you play well - of course there is going to be a huge demand for educational content and of course the market is going to going to respond accordingly. Would the games be better without them? Of course, but that was never a realistic proposition and if sites like DC, Cardrunners, RIO, Leggo, etc. didn't exist there would be dozens of other sites lining up to take their place. The fact that something so incredibly predictable tilts you so hard is hilarious to me.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _jimbo_
There is too much variance live given how slow it is in comparison to online. Over 100k hands for example anything can happen. You can get in 100k hands a month online easily, it might take you a few years live. I know winrates are much higher but the luck factor will be too high for many people.
Play higher- the luck factor is admittedly huge but the skill level of the players is so low.People tilt like crazy live bc of the slowness and you can really get an idea for what kind of mood they're in that second which significantly adds to your winrate. And no joke people will even show you their cards sometimes and give you free money. Often it's some chicken **** players w the nuts who doesn't want to get sucked out on but that **** adds up.I've occasionally even seen spew monkeys expose their hands on the river heads up then ship.



A winning player can lose over 100k hands online bc the win rates are so tiny. That's not gonna happen live unless you just sit in the worst games ever day in day out.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _jimbo_
Which part? There is an enormous amount of variance in poker both live and online.
Nay. If you have 20bb/100 your variance wont be high at all. Pretty much wat was said in post above
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
individually yes. but collectively you all adapt and then die together killing the golden goose.
Adapt by leaving the environment and finding another goose
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvr
Adapt by leaving the environment and finding another goose
i did.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:26 AM
live poker is miserable. the longer you play the worse it gets. you can def still get buried but ya it would be hard to have a losing year.

think the guys taking the online>live route are only delaying the inevitable unless you get with the program, ditch the morals, and start selling the poker dream rather than living it yourself. its a whole lot easier
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdb
Global poker needs cash games segregated by wealth, for which the best available proxy is country of residence.

But everyone keeps banging on about global player pools, which means the hourly heads below $10 whatever happens to training sites, rake, rakeback, multi-tabling, HUDS, scripts, etc.

Those things still all need fixing (to improve fish lifetime value), but it won't affect the pro hourly, which is set by pro competition.
Not want to derail the thread too much, but this is interesting, might deserve its own thread.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente
live poker is miserable. the longer you play the worse it gets. you can def still get buried but ya it would be hard to have a losing year.

think the guys taking the online>live route are only delaying the inevitable unless you get with the program, ditch the morals, and start selling the poker dream rather than living it yourself. its a whole lot easier
Yeah, not trying to turn this into a live vs online derail. Playing live for a living can be viable if your comfortable with the volatility. Just avoid the live donkaments
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente
live poker is miserable. the longer you play the worse it gets. you can def still get buried but ya it would be hard to have a losing year.

think the guys taking the online>live route are only delaying the inevitable unless you get with the program, ditch the morals, and start selling the poker dream rather than living it yourself. its a whole lot easier
depends. play 1000 hrs or so a year, have a lot of free time. travel a lot.don't spend money like a drunken sailor.make more than you spend. good life.

grinding 1/2 nl for 2k hours a year, saving next to no money and being in the casino all the time would make me look for a noose.

and yea f the donkaments.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _jimbo_
Yeah, not trying to turn this into a live vs online derail. Playing live for a living can be viable if your comfortable with the volatility. Just avoid the live donkaments
mtt live pro'ing is the easiest long term sustainable form of professional poker. follow my 12 steps to success and you'll be crushing and selling for ridic mark ups like the rest of us. pm for the details
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente
mtt live pro'ing is the easiest long term sustainable form of professional poker. follow my 12 steps to success and you'll be crushing and selling for ridic mark ups like the rest of us. pm for the details
I might just buy a bunch of lottery tickets instead. Less time consuming. Probably more fun too
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siculamente
mtt live pro'ing is the easiest long term sustainable form of professional poker. follow my 12 steps to success and you'll be crushing and selling for ridic mark ups like the rest of us. pm for the details
You didn't say 100k, so I'm not interested.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-24-2016 , 02:33 PM
Too late boys I'm full already! Keep your eyes peeled for openings, million dollar winnings around the corner enoigh pie for everyone just put in the hard work

Don't worry tho, this is good for the poker economy, the guys who contacted me are totally new to poker, they don't even know what a flush beats a pear,

Last edited by Siculamente; 03-24-2016 at 02:44 PM.
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