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Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward?

03-26-2016 , 07:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ
False (loads of links please)

There is no way that's the majority opinion on 2p2.



Very false.

How much free time have you got and will you get during your working life - I mean not including eating, communting, hygiene etc?

What's roughly the total amount of time you have spent reading 2p2 and posting?

Therefore: what percentage of all of the free time you will ever get have you already spent, not even on playing, but on talking about it?

Who is wasting their life?



As I mentioned 2 posts up, "entitled" doesn't actually mean anything that in any way affects you. Skip the telepathic psychology and tell us who has been unethical in their dealings with you.



Maybe you should seek happiness from a source other than the absence of unrealistic confidence and optimism in the heads of other people then. You might find you less often run into things you can't stand.
All of this.

Bumpnrun is absolutely the saddest and most pathetic poster on 2+2.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 08:53 AM
It is sad that people revert to playing a card game as a waste of time/life

Poker has given me the opportunity in spare/down time to do many community volunteer projects over the last 12 years.

If I had chose another option for income I would not have been able to lead or participate in any of the projects.


The game doesn't waste time, people do
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMeRightRound
Because incomes in the real world rise in line with inflation.

And people aren't depositing more to play poker. Net deposits are shrinking and have been shrinking for several years now.
Where do you guys get this information from?

Is there a legitimate/official source?
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMVP
All of this.

Bumpnrun is absolutely the saddest and most pathetic poster on 2+2.
No he isn't. He's an absolutely fine poster. It's nice to hear the thoughts of someone who lives in the real world and knows how it works.

The only reason you think he is "sad" and "pathetic" is because you're another selfish, self-entitled reg who has no clue how the real world works.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 10:42 AM
^ So how does the world work then?
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 11:07 AM
Teh overuse of teh word entitled comes to a point where that word almoast tilts me as much as i tilt others with the teh.

As soon as somebody is critical of the status quo/where poker is heading/in the past everything was better he's instantly entitled no matter what
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
Teh overuse of teh word entitled comes to a point where that word almoast tilts me as much as i tilt others with the teh.

As soon as somebody is critical of the status quo/where poker is heading/in the past everything was better he's instantly entitled no matter what
if something like that tilts you, where the **** were you when taylor caby said he was giving back to the community with BET RAISE FOLD: THE STORY OF ONLINE POKER. i got killed in that thread.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMeRightRound
No he isn't. He's an absolutely fine poster. It's nice to hear the thoughts of someone who lives in the real world and knows how it works.

The only reason you think he is "sad" and "pathetic" is because you're another selfish, self-entitled reg who has no clue how the real world works.
naw I think he is pretty immature and he has no clue how the real world works, he only has a clue how his own little world works, like most people really
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmallflush
Where do you guys get this information from?

Is there a legitimate/official source?
This thread is a pretty legit source....or it's full of breakeven players looking for an excuse.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
Teh overuse of teh word entitled comes to a point where that word almoast tilts me as much as i tilt others with the teh.

As soon as somebody is critical of the status quo/where poker is heading/in the past everything was better he's instantly entitled no matter what
Paint us a scenario of how to fix online poker so a bunch of unemployed 20 somethings can easily make $100k+ (anything less is not worthy of TimStone). Full disclosure: I was one of those 20 somethings but was fully aware that poker income had to decline and sought out education/career.

Offer solutions instead of complaining. What solutions are there?
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT22
Paint us a scenario of how to fix online poker so a bunch of unemployed 20 somethings can easily make $100k+ (anything less is not worthy of TimStone). Full disclosure: I was one of those 20 somethings but was fully aware that poker income had to decline and sought out education/career.

Offer solutions instead of complaining. What solutions are there?
entitled = how dare amaya raise prices on their product! we shall boycott! (as if poker player is a profession)

the end game for anti training site guys is to create a culture where strategy is scorned, where Phil Galfond isn't the "nicest guy in poker", but more accurately an opportunist and a two faced phony.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan valdez
seems like a lot of confusion on some basic stuff here

training sites arent owned or run by micro, small, and mid stakes players. the high stakes nosebleed pros were/are making videos and stuff but were also flat out telling you they arent giving away some info... they didnt want to ruin "their game" or "their profitability". they wanted to help you with your game. aka damage the games and even more so of anyone who doesnt sign up that you play in

the high stakes and nosebleed guys used their name recognition to build the training site. then they exploited players who were ******ed enough to pollute their own games for peanuts. the coaches trashed their own games and made peanuts while the guys at nosebleeds made all the money. the coaches were/are suckers. yes theres always going to be another sucker, it doesnt mean youre not a sucker. when money gets taken out of the game by people not in the game, i call it rake

the coaches did get something of great perceived value though. as we are all aware, a smart 20 year old knows absolutely everything. except when they are being exploited in exchange for someone jacking their ego off with there feet. then they are clueless
...
Great post and I'd also like to add something wrt what WCG was saying on Joey's podcast yesterday. WCG was saying that yeah it wouldn't be smart of him to give high stakes level strat because it would potentially affect his bottom line, so these guys give strat applicable to lower stakes. So basically the top guys make money by making the games below them tougher. They make money by making things worse for others, that's not really cool IMO. Also, Doug mentioned how his parents have careers helping others and framed his starting a training site in that vein which is pretty disingenuous IYAM. He also used the popular argument that if he didn't do it someone else would. Well that could just as easily be used as a justification to deal drugs too.
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03-26-2016 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKingdom
Great post and I'd also like to add something wrt what WCG was saying on Joey's podcast yesterday. WCG was saying that yeah it wouldn't be smart of him to give high stakes level strat because it would potentially affect his bottom line, so these guys give strat applicable to lower stakes. So basically the top guys make money by making the games below them tougher. They make money by making things worse for others, that's not really cool IMO. Also, Doug mentioned how his parents have careers helping others and framed his starting a training site in that vein which is pretty disingenuous IYAM. He also used the popular argument that if he didn't do it someone else would. Well that could just as easily be used as a justification to deal drugs too.
I just want to clear up a couple things about this.

When I was talking about my parents helping others that is far different then me starting a training site. I was using it as an example of saying how when I began poker I had no money, and was explaining how I used poker to go from being very broke to where I am today.

I did however, help people for free a bunch (Examples such as http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...forum-1368796/ , I made a bunch of threads here to help beginners.) I also ran an aim group coming in stakes where I coached and helped people learn poker.

I am not saying that the training sites purpose is just to help people. The sites goal is to make money, because its a company. However that does not mean that because my company is making money, I don't care about my customers or how they are doing with poker. I think those two things can exist together, or I wouldn't have started a training site to begin with.

I don't understand the drug dealer argument, because that is against the law. What I am doing is a legitimate business in a highly competitive space.

If you have any questions for me you can pm me and id be happy to explain my viewpoint. Also keep in mind I understand that this makes your games tougher, and I am sorry that my business is having that effect on your career.
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03-26-2016 , 03:24 PM
Man. I have a new respect for you after reading this since watching the podcast. Now I have to say you 2 are truly massive pod-trolls like peter griffin when he couldn't stop acting sarcastic.

+1 to WCG's sentiments. I'd like to extend it further, and might later, but I'll say this...

Shunning coaches that put out valuable content (or calling them irrational) is like telling Bruce Lee he can't/shouldn't write books and teach “foreigners”. Or being upset that the ufc is creating better martial artists.

I will say one thing that I haven't really heard PG or WCG say but I KNOW they are thinking it and that they ARE hiding something from the players and their competition...

Teaching, especially at that level, is by far the best way to improve your game as it causes you to think from a higher level, every legit black-belt knows this.

Think about who you are complaining to/about.

Also, we aren't going to run out of strategy to learn or games to solve.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT22
.

Offer solutions instead of complaining. What solutions are there?
There is no solution. Its GG. Alone WCG making coaching site should tell you pretty much that poker is over for real, at least if you think a minute about it
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
There is no solution. Its GG. Alone WCG making coaching site should tell you pretty much that poker is over for real, at least if you think a minute about it
We believe you.

So when are you planning on leaving 2p2?

(PS. Have you considered doing a Well before you go? )
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-26-2016 , 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobite barnes
We believe you.

So when are you planning on leaving 2p2?

(PS. Have you considered doing a Well before you go? )
Thought this thread serves as my well?!
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03-26-2016 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
Thought this thread serves as my well?!
just hold it in here timmy: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...isisted-88525/
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-27-2016 , 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnrun
Nah. at least u are honest about what females think of poker as a career. Had loads of idiots on here try and tell me that "all the girls they know think its cool".....i mostly DGAF if people decide to waste their lives playing a card game. its a bit pathetic and its a waste, but youre not my son so whatever. Its the entitled tools who think what they are doing is somehow awesome and even heroic i cant stand
Oh all good. I was expecting more negative feedback but whatevs. I'm not a one trick pony; I just believe in putting your all into whatever you are doing. There are 168 hours in a week and 100 waking hours minimum. 60 is not THAT bad if you enjoy what you do even a little. My brother does that in extermination business and does not make close to 100k.

Poker has been nice to me and most of my years have been fun and I've had some pretty stuff. Currently I'm trying to become a shrink and hope to eventually play poker part time. But no matter what I'll be putting in 60 hours minimum cause I love life and what I am doing.

But psychiatrists make 2-400 and get laid waaay more than poker pros. I just play now until residency cause it's my best income. Despite poker being a psychological game, it is definitely a resume gap for sure tho and it's like breaking into Alcatraz to get into psych. But I'll do it. I always do. And shrinks save lives.

Regarding training sites I don't think they are that bad. Remember just a one hour video on runitonce requires that you watch it at least twice, take notes, memorize the notes, and apply it in the heat of battle. Most are too lazy.

Poker just declined and was much more sexy a decade ago.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-27-2016 , 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimStone
There is no solution. Its GG. Alone WCG making coaching site should tell you pretty much that poker is over for real, at least if you think a minute about it
Have you even looked at his site? It's vastly more entertainment than education.

To be honest I don't understand how it's commercially viable. An entertainment site in a fast declining industry. There were plenty of sites that did this that were free (paid by affiliate programs) that are gone or as good as dead now. How the hell are they going to get people to pay subscriptions to the same thing.

Makes no sense to me.

But yeah I agree it's gg until we get some new games and sites running.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-27-2016 , 03:25 AM
Training sites generally help bad players improve which makes the lower stakes harder overall, however they are still lightyears behind the Top competition.

At the higher levels the information is definitely withheld on purpose. Its mainly specific advanced concepts (that are much less widely known) that are blended in all together, mixed with players who have an above Average intuitive ability during hands to figure out exactly what is going on, those are the guys that make it to the top 1%

How is it that Bobby Fischer got underneath chess deeper then 99% of the people before him when all he did was study the game day and night by himself? he didn't have no friggen training sites and he became World Class and beat the Russians by working hard and putting the time in+ maybe a slight touch of genius, but he still had to put an INSANE amount of hours in (im assuming his lifes work).

There will always be players that DO NOT care about putting in the time and effort to get better. its estimated that 70 Million Americans play poker, even the ones that Pay for training sites aren't guaranteed to be winners because of Variance over the longrun...
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-27-2016 , 04:25 AM
Bobby Fisher's life was chess and he had a natural off the charts aptitude for it- there will always be the occasional prodigy in poker or anything else. No point in worrying about the outlier in the grand scheme of things.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-27-2016 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LETIGRA
Oh all good. I was expecting more negative feedback but whatevs. I'm not a one trick pony; I just believe in putting your all into whatever you are doing. There are 168 hours in a week and 100 waking hours minimum. 60 is not THAT bad if you enjoy what you do even a little. My brother does that in extermination business and does not make close to 100k.

Poker has been nice to me and most of my years have been fun and I've had some pretty stuff. Currently I'm trying to become a shrink and hope to eventually play poker part time. But no matter what I'll be putting in 60 hours minimum cause I love life and what I am doing.

But psychiatrists make 2-400 and get laid waaay more than poker pros. I just play now until residency cause it's my best income. Despite poker being a psychological game, it is definitely a resume gap for sure tho and it's like breaking into Alcatraz to get into psych. But I'll do it. I always do. And shrinks save lives.

Regarding training sites I don't think they are that bad. Remember just a one hour video on runitonce requires that you watch it at least twice, take notes, memorize the notes, and apply it in the heat of battle. Most are too lazy.

Poker just declined and was much more sexy a decade ago.
Interesting point.

I wonder if being a poker pro for set period of time is more useful from a psychological research standpoint than working at McD's?

My 1st instinct is I don't think it is.
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03-27-2016 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider
I am not saying that the training sites purpose is just to help people. The sites goal is to make money, because its a company. However that does not mean that because my company is making money, I don't care about my customers or how they are doing with poker. I think those two things can exist together, or I wouldn't have started a training site to begin with.
well said.
Training sites: why did people give away valuable strategy for so little reward? Quote
03-28-2016 , 02:48 AM
I think everyone needs to chill. The beautiful thing about NL holdem, Omaha, and many other poker variants is that they arent solved yet, and despite "the sky is falling" rumours, its not that close.

Considering Doug is one of the best NL players in the world right now, if he did share all of his poker knowledge - the games would get tougher. But guess what? Because poker isn't solved yet, you can be better than Doug Polk.

Poker is like anything else in life - if you want to excel, you have to put in the work. Plain and simple. You want to keep making money in poker? Be better than everyone else.

We live in a generation where everyone feels entitled to have whatever they want. And despite what "The Secret" says, you cant will your way to success. You have to WORK your way to success. You dont want to put in the work? That's fine - you can pick up your participation medal and go back to your mothers tit.

Go get it guys.
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