Having played all these games at various points 200NL live = 10NL online seems about right, but 1kNL live is very different to 50NL online (not even necessary strictly tougher but it requires a different skill set).

Each limit live is so variable between places, at different times etc I don't think such comparisons are really possible.

chess vs checkers was intended to point out the difference in complexity.

But complexity is in the eye of the beholder.
If you know a lot about a thing, you see and understand its true complexity. If you don't, you don't.

Ya, fair enough.

Yeah and this is exactly why the analogy didn't work because its nonsensical to think online poker is more complex.

While some of the data is the same for online and live much of the difference is interpreting some differing data in different ways. Neither necessarily more complex than the other.

The thing I am best at is better/harder than the thing I am not best at.

Nuh-uh.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Anything 5/10 and below live is .01/.02 online.

Playing live I get to see 25 hands / hour so my reads are based on seeing each opponent probably play 4-5 hands. But due to etiquette of live poker losing hands are mucked so after 1 hour I probably see 1 hand go to showdown per opponent. Great sample to make reads / make strategic adjustments to exploit. I'm generally forced to play pretty 'readless' poker as despite being live and having 'lots more information' this is generally just visual and not actually poker based. I don't have info on / won't have observed how opponents play draws, big hands / their double barrel frequencies / whether they 3 bet a polarised or continuous value range etc until I've probably played with them for 1 month straight. Therefore I have to make vague assumptions / guesses.

Online however, despite 'not being able to read my opponent' I can see their mucked hands, observe a relevant sample of hands in a relatively short time frame to be able to adopt an exploitive strategy against them. This to me is the most fun aspect of poker. Strategically online you are able to go about 10 levels deeper than live, hence why I agree with the checkers / chess argument. Playing live against unknowns I generally need to default to a 'robotic' / boring style of ABC poker.

this was difficult to read, was really hoping Liv B would actually be involved lol

in live poker you need to have superduperhuge edge or be a lucky mofo for as long as your poker career lasts

people who fit there are cute n all but online poker is chess

you make it sound... simple.

That was the point Galfond made, btw. The fewer the unknowns, the simpler the game is.

I don't agree with him (and I think he was arguing just to defend live play at that time). I think both games are complex.

this thread sucks

I think a more accurate metaphor would be that tournament poker is like checkers, and cash game poker is like chess.

Live is like playing basketball on the street, while online is like playing the game in the NBA. The best players are in the NBA, and they'd do well in the streets after some adjustments. But most street players would struggle a ton in the NBA.

(note that I spent all of 3 seconds thinking about this, but thought it was entertaining enough to be worth posting..)

Let's merge this thread into one where cash game players say they are better than tournament. That'll be fun and about as useful. Still this goes with my thinking that LivB is an idiot. Lousy commentator. Remember him saying that Helmuth could only win small limit tourneys after he got a bracelet in a non-holdem event. And then Helmuth won WSOPE.

liv is a pretentious pompous knob job. And DN is DN. If these two are my only 2 options to side with I pass.

Olivier Busquet ‏@olivierbusquet 7m

people might be surprised to know that I don't use a HUD or any other analytical software when I play online...."

He's an expert and is qualified to hold the opinion that online is complex.

Does it follow that HUDs simplify the game, and those that used them play a simplified version of the game?

Very well said.

confirmed, poker is basketball

what is online street poker like?

+1

Cashgame players are very welcome in my tournaments. Bring more cashgamers!!

Not actually "poker based?" Thinking that for quite a long time before the internet, "poker" was played by people who could see each other, and successful poker play was based to a large extent on understanding visual and verbal clues, and memory. OL, it's more about analyzing statistics and perhaps reading timing tells. IMO, neither is checkers or chess, they are just different games.

Love how Daniel gets snap offended, instantly going into ego protection mode. Lol

Would it be easier to create a robot to beat online poker or to beat live poker.....?


There in lies the answer to this thread....