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Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion

10-05-2017 , 10:29 PM
Yes, pure speculation based upon no evidence or credible information will not be allowed in this thread. There are several other places on the internet where that stuff can be posted.

Thank you for your cooperation.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-05-2017 , 11:13 PM
WSJ: From Broken Home to Real-Estate Riches: The Life of the Las Vegas Shooter

Article is paywalled so I'll post some of the salient excerpts for those who don't have a subscription:
  • More than a half century ago, a bank robber held authorities in an armed stand-off in downtown Las Vegas until federal agents shot out the windows of his car. Benjamin Paddock, who was later described on his FBI “Most Wanted” flier as a psychopath with suicidal tendencies, surrendered a few miles from the high-rise hotel where last weekend his oldest son became one of America’s deadliest killers. Stephen Paddock was 7 years old at the time of his father’s capture in 1960. It was unclear whether he ever saw him again.
  • Paddock’s mother moved her four boys to Southern California and, like many before them, began a new life. Stephen played on his high school tennis team in the San Fernando Valley and graduated from a Cal State campus with a business degree.
  • Though Paddock had few social ties, he maintained relationships with a small set of people, who described him as loyal and generous.
  • “We were never close as a family,” said Patrick Paddock, the second oldest son. “I wasn’t close to any of my brothers, even growing up.”
  • Eric Paddock said his brother moved their mother into a comfortable Florida home. “Steve took care of the people he loved,” Eric Paddock said, sobbing outside his home this week. “The people he loved, he took care of.”
  • Paddock began gambling at the Wynn casino not long after it opened in 2005, according to a person familiar with his gambling. He also frequented The Cosmopolitan, as well as casinos owned by Caesars Entertainment Corp. , the Atlantis in Reno, Nev., and others, according to people familiar with the matter.
  • Paddock gambled enough that casinos provided him complimentary suites, sushi and poolside services. At least one casino later cut back on the perks after his playing skills seemed to protect him from losing enough money to compensate for the freebies, several people familiar with the matter said.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-05-2017 , 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckamuck
This jives with what his brother says:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPZFN6VFFow

Would love for people to take a look at this and give their opinion of whatever the hell is going on in his brother's mind. I've watched most of this trainwreck and it's stunning that his brother doesn't seem to disavow his behavior, keeps saying he was a genius, not saying anything bad about him or what he did. Keeps talking about what a nice guy he was. Dude stopped himself from saying 'Steve was an army...' Keeps saying Steve was normal... saying 'something horrible happened to my brother.'

I seriously can't process how this guy is acting.

I'm now wondering if the whole family has a psychopath gene or something... dunno if that's a thing or not. His dad's FBI wanted poster said he was 'diagnosed as a psychopath', and the younger brother has arson convictions. My understanding is that arson is behaviorally linked to psychopathy. Thoughts?
yes it is a thing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/psychopath-gene-2015-7
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros
WSJ: From Broken Home to Real-Estate Riches: The Life of the Las Vegas Shooter

At least one casino later cut back on the perks after his playing skills seemed to protect him from losing enough money to compensate for the freebies, several people familiar with the matter said.[/LIST]
???? did this guy seriously beat table games and VP? Unless he was counting.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
My biggest question...and Im surprised the press conference hasnt asked this...would the breach have still taken ~1 hour if he was still shooting?
No, it was specifically mentioned in some press briefing somewhere that the only reason they waited was because he stopped shooting into the crowd. Had he resumed they would have breached with whatever personnel they had available at that time. If he saw 50 cops outside his front door on his little cameras I'm sure he took that moment to kill himself before flashbangs and teargas were thrown in allowing for his capture.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by javi
No, it was specifically mentioned in some press briefing somewhere that the only reason they waited was because he stopped shooting into the crowd.
That.

Ava, if you look at the timeline you'll see that the security guard was shot at 10:16, the officers on the 31st floor were notified of this at 10:17 and there were no more shots fired so they secured all rooms on the 32nd floor because it was quiet and then breached the shooters door and found him dead.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
Please read and look through those. It is all too easy to turn the number 59 into a statistic, and it is much harder to do so looking at each of those and seeing the joy they had in their lives that this prick Paddock obliterated.
Very true, and this makes it so much more real. I teared up a few times reading those. I urge everyone to read.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 04:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSwag
???? did this guy seriously beat table games and VP? Unless he was counting.
In a few reports, it was mentioned he was sometimes drinking while playing. That fact alone makes it impossible to be a winner in a game with already slim to none advantage.

Also, casinos never ever give extra comps, suits, extended free rooms etc to winning players.

So no, contrary to most headlines and his brothers testimony, he was not crushing casinos.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProffesionalMalaka
In a few reports, it was mentioned he was sometimes drinking while playing. That fact alone makes it impossible to be a winner in a game with already slim to none advantage.

Also, casinos never ever give extra comps, suits, extended free rooms etc to winning players.

So no, contrary to most headlines and his brothers testimony, he was not crushing casinos.
It's also been reported that at least one casino quit comping him because his losses were not enough. I think he was either using video poker as a way to launder money or to cover another profitable strategy like card counting.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Treesong
The other mass killers that come to mind like James Holmes or the VA tech nutjob seem very different from this guy, in that both were antisocial and visibly troubled. This guy seems different and much much more dangerous. It is much harder and probably impossible to stop an intelligent, careful psycho with the resources to carry this off and time to plan it. I’m actually surprised this wasn’t worse.
This comment may be hard to understand for people who aren't yet middle aged, but for me the strangest thing about this is how old the guy was (64 I think). Usually the psychopathic part (however you want to call it) manifests itself much earlier. Usually younger men are far more aggressive, angry etc. than older guys. I'm not sure I've ever met a guy who didn't get calmer with age. Maybe the physical long distance part is relevant here - maybe firing at people from 400 yards doesn't feel as violent (to the firer) as doing it up close - so doing it doesn't require the same sort of personal aggression that doing it up close would. I can't think of a single example of a mass attack like this perpetrated by someone so old who wasn't already well established as a killer.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi
Not enough people talking about the woman telling people they were going to die. Seems important.
So what do you want to talk about? You think it's important, but have nothing to add. That's not surprising, since all we know is that a witness or witnesses say a woman told people they were going to die. What more is there to talk about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi
LOL at it being just a guess, luck, etc.
How about someone not in their right mind, or witnesses not having got it right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krataman
I find it quite insincere to ban politics/gun control debate in a thread that is mostly about politics and gun control. How does this ban correlate with free speach yall are so proud of? whoever issued the ban should be ashamed of himself and since we are banned from discussing the elephant in the room lets just pretend gun laws are not the problem and send som prayers and wishes out there. I am sure that will help. /facepalm
Your complaints about moderation go here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1285169/

And plenty of room for discussion of gun control here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4...icago-1271170/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/4...hread-1669913/
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProffesionalMalaka
...Also, casinos never ever give extra comps, suits, extended free rooms etc to winning players...
Not true in the absolute sense stated.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 08:09 AM
lol at this dude complaining about the clear set guidelines of this thread
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 09:10 AM
The most heartbreaking after effect of this shooting imo. Are the truther videos that claim it never happened that get 10s of thousands of views on YouTube. Saying the Las Vegas shooting never happened or it was some crazy conspiracy.

How can so many people be like that. If it was less than 1,000 ok. But it seems so many people are just so out of touch with reality. It saddens and scares me
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 09:16 AM
I most def think it happened and that there is much more to the story. Very interested to see what information comes out in the future.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 09:48 AM
What is this cryptic mysticism you’re alluding to, Rich?

Most of the truthers are trolls and the rest delusional, insofar as I can tell. There’s no evidence as of yet that even mildly suggests anything other than Paddock.

A hearsay report of some unknown and unverified lady shouting “we’re all going to die” who was turned away from the concert because bouncers thought she was a loon? No, that doesn’t qualify as evidence.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njpokerplayer24
The most heartbreaking after effect of this shooting imo. Are the truther videos that claim it never happened that get 10s of thousands of views on YouTube. Saying the Las Vegas shooting never happened or it was some crazy conspiracy.

How can so many people be like that. If it was less than 1,000 ok. But it seems so many people are just so out of touch with reality. It saddens and scares me
i cant get my head around this wtf i mean i hope most/all of them are just trolls instead of idiots?maniacs? how can you think no one got hurt
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 09:51 AM
didn't happen? da ****?
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whomeno
i cant get my head around this wtf i mean i hope most/all of them are just trolls instead of idiots?maniacs? how can you think no one got hurt

This is why I would punch the sandy hook troll in the face. It’s not that his views disagree with mine — many people’s do and I don’t have this impulse. But a deliberate, manipulative troll that denies reality and shoves it in the face of victims and their parents?
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 12:43 PM
Now they say that the note in the picture just had "numbers" on it.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_CUtiger
Now they say that the note in the picture just had "numbers" on it.
Algorithms, if you will.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by restorativejustice
Not true in the absolute sense stated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProffesionalMalaka
In a few reports, it was mentioned he was sometimes drinking while playing. That fact alone makes it impossible to be a winner in a game with already slim to none advantage.

Also, casinos never ever give extra comps, suits, extended free rooms etc to winning players.

So no, contrary to most headlines and his brothers testimony, he was not crushing casinos.
I am also having a hard time believing he made his family wealthy (claimed by brother) and was a successful videopoker/tablegames crusher. However, drinking on the job as an advantage player definitely does not make it impossible to win and Casinos these days are more than happy to have winning players come back as many times as possible until they lose or are found to be a true advantage player and thus banned. Casinos also make a % back in money spent at the establishment for services, food, and entertainment.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
This comment may be hard to understand for people who aren't yet middle aged, but for me the strangest thing about this is how old the guy was (64 I think). Usually the psychopathic part (however you want to call it) manifests itself much earlier. Usually younger men are far more aggressive, angry etc. than older guys. I'm not sure I've ever met a guy who didn't get calmer with age. Maybe the physical long distance part is relevant here - maybe firing at people from 400 yards doesn't feel as violent (to the firer) as doing it up close - so doing it doesn't require the same sort of personal aggression that doing it up close would. I can't think of a single example of a mass attack like this perpetrated by someone so old who wasn't already well established as a killer.
This is a very good point. Some other poster mentioned earlier in this thread that maybe there is no real big motive, that if could just have been him "challenging" himself in an adrenaline fueled attack. The distance is relevant because it's not as personal as shooting people point blank like previous mass shooters did, previous shooters who were deeply agree young me .

Islamic terrorism is always carried out by young men, while the old men plan the attacks. Infact Islamic terrorism attackers are getting younger and younger as many of the ones in Europe are in their early 20s now rather than late 20s.

This as actually the most similar to the 1966 Texas tower attack where no real motive was determined. But even he was 25 at the time of the attack.
Paddock could have been an adrenaline junkie (gambling) and this attack was like the ultimate adrenaline experience, shooting people like a video game or movie style dramaticism while fending off cops. Like a breaking bad style "feeling alive" moment.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 01:26 PM
^^^^^
Or a change in him could have been triggered by pharmaceuticals he was prescribed.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote
10-06-2017 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by restorativejustice
^^^^^
Or a change in him could have been triggered by pharmaceuticals he was prescribed.
Wasn't he prescribed Valium? Then I would look for reasons rather in what it was prescribed for.
Las Vegas Mass Shooting October 1st 2017 - No Politics or Gun Control Discussion Quote

      
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