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Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II

03-29-2011 , 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael12345
there is. its slightly more effective than double range merging
And how about quadruple range merging?
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
And how about quadruple range merging?
and how about 3.5 range merging?
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltnonstop
It actually tells you everything you need to know about DN. And no, I don´t give a ****. I´m done posting anyway. Bye.
Thank you.
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakulah
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redskins33
The subtext is what counts. It looks like DN is just thanking his friends, but the real message is that Blom doesn't deserve to be at the same table as him. DN is basically slapping Blom in the face, having sex with Blom's sister and kicking Blom's dog at the same time. Just disgraceful.
Pictures of the sister and dog, or it didn't happen.
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Is there an actual thing called a "triple range merge" or is that just a running joke?
Yes, there is. A "range merge" is when you are able to put your opponent on a precise hand by calculating the median hand in his range. For example, if the opponent has a range of T6 - KJ, his "merged" hand can be assumed to be Q5; statistically, the opponent will have exactly this hand more than 80% of the time, assuming the range you put him on is correct.

A double range merge refers to performing this operation on a polarized range, such as 32 - 72, QQ-AA (a common "naked bluff or big pair" situation). The villain's actual hand in that case will usually be the median of KK and 54, which happens to be J8; even though, interestingly, that hand is in neither of the two ranges.

A triple range merge means you perform a double range merge but also include a certain set of Omaha hands to compensate for an opponent's excessive degree of action. As the calculation required is difficult to perform on the fly, one must be either a genius or a bot to pull it off.

Daniel knows all this perfectly well, of course, and being a genius -- or possibly a bot, the jury is still out -- he is slyly teasing the cognoscenti.

Spoiler:
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 07:55 AM
[ ] Sample size
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirppa
You do realize there is difference between strategy vs. a specific player and plugging leaks in your own strategy?
So you're saying his friends only gave general advice? They never looked at isi's hands and said hey dn you should call with hand x or better every time he shoves the river because we've determined that's the weakest hand that you can profitable call with? Even if they did i guess i don't see that much of a problem but i think it's silly to think that they never got into player specific strategy
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boobies4me
seems pretty silly to me to think of things in terms of isil "winning" first match and DN "winning" second. across the 5k hands they've played what's isils winrate? clearly his winrate in first match was unsustainable, but if he has a 8ptbb+ winrate vs DN theres clearly going to be 2500 hand stretches where he breaks even or slightly loses. Overall I'd assume his winrate across these 5k hands is still super high, but don't feel like pulling up first match.
Serious?

These have been promoted as 'matches' and bets have been taken on each 'match'

Golf analogy:
Blom won the first match 10 and 8
DN won the second one 1up

Score: 1 - 1

It seems fairly obvious that Blom is the better player but Pokerstars definitely promote them as one off matches...because they are.

Fair play to DN for even doing this and exposing himself to the morons and haters. He proved he was good enough to play Blom.

Coaching thing is fine too. Every top sportsmen in the world works on their game with help from the outside. Standard.
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03-29-2011 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinc2zinc

...Fair play to DN for even doing this and exposing himself to the morons and haters...
Shocking revelations itt.
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinc2zinc
Serious?

These have been promoted as 'matches' and bets have been taken on each 'match'

Golf analogy:
Blom won the first match 10 and 8
DN won the second one 1up

Score: 1 - 1

It seems fairly obvious that Blom is the better player but Pokerstars definitely promote them as one off matches...because they are.

Fair play to DN for even doing this and exposing himself to the morons and haters. He proved he was good enough to play Blom.

Coaching thing is fine too. Every top sportsmen in the world works on their game with help from the outside. Standard.
Clearly that's not what I mean. I understand that stars separates the matches into 2500 hand chunks for promotional purposes. What I meant was that it should be obvious that even though they are tied in terms of 'matches', that it's kind of meaningless in terms of debating over who is the better player. If the matches continued on this current trajectory then they'd stay "tied" in terms of match wins but isil would be absolutely crushing in terms of overall winnings/winrate. So I guess while 2500 hand matches may add some entertainment value and validation for Daniel to say he won and they're tied, it just seems pretty irrelevant to view it like that in a poker sense.
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 10:47 AM
Bunch of spoiled kids in here that are disappointed they don't get everything they want
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-29-2011 , 11:20 AM
meh... thinking of this in any other way than a cashgame with stipulations to guarantee "game" is ******ed. Haxton didn't slow down when he was in the lead because it's -ev to sidetrack from his main gameplan with nitting up a bunch, and even tho he knew ppl bet on the game I am sure he wouldnt burn through like $5000 in blinds because of their bets, they knew he was gonna aproach it as a 2500 hands cashgame and nothing else. Viktor probably sees it as that aswell considering in a few months he will have played like 10+ challenges and shutting down or going crazy allin-mode just because its sub 500 hands every match left is catastrophical for his EV or bb/100 if you will.

If DN want to see this as an awesome "victory", fine it's on him but since there are no reason to spazz out or nit up in the last 500 hands since there isn't any official sidebets on the game or prices. It's just a cashgame where they both have 15 buyins and have to finish 2500 hands.

THE ONLY way to bet on this game as a bystander imo is crossbooking if it is two players that sees it for what it is, however. Is it 2x Daniel Negranus that put glory of winning a 'match' over maximizing EV then fine, bet on whoever wins.

Stars will obviously promote as a "MATCH" do make it more appealing to the random donk that masturbates weeks before the next UFC showdown.



edit: lets put it like this, viktor and daniel plays 20 matches, it goes 10-10... however, viktor is in profit with a cool million in total. Are they still "even" ?
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03-29-2011 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boobies4me
Clearly that's not what I mean. I understand that stars separates the matches into 2500 hand chunks for promotional purposes. What I meant was that it should be obvious that even though they are tied in terms of 'matches', that it's kind of meaningless in terms of debating over who is the better player. If the matches continued on this current trajectory then they'd stay "tied" in terms of match wins but isil would be absolutely crushing in terms of overall winnings/winrate. So I guess while 2500 hand matches may add some entertainment value and validation for Daniel to say he won and they're tied, it just seems pretty irrelevant to view it like that in a poker sense.
That's exactly right, the matches are for entertainment, the sample size is always going to be too small to determine who is the better player. It's like the difference between blitz and classical chess.
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03-29-2011 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lana_Lang

edit: lets put it like this, viktor and daniel plays 20 matches, it goes 10-10... however, viktor is in profit with a cool million in total. Are they still "even" ?
Depends on how you are keeping score.


Two baseball teams play 2 games

Team A wins the first 15-1
Team B wins the second 4-3...

What's the score? Team A - 1 ...... Team B - 1

So if you are keeping score by results, it's 1-1. If you are keeping score by total number of runs, Team A wins 18-5.

But my understanding is they (PokerStars) treat each week on it's own merit. That's why they each got a fresh $150K this week.
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03-29-2011 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodney21a

I don't know what season of HSP it was but Yukon bought in for 1million bucks Ivey picked up a good hand and raised... Yuckon 3 bet... Ivey Four bet.. Yukon Five Bet all in.. Ivey pondered and ponder and FOLDED.
What are you talking about? Get off Ivey's nuts.

He made a bad fold with Kings or standard fold to an overbet.

Ivey is nothing special except all these kids that make him to be. Without Fulltilt he'd be going broke over and over again.
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03-29-2011 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunni74
Depends on how you are keeping score.


Two baseball teams play 2 games

Team A wins the first 15-1
Team B wins the second 4-3...

What's the score? Team A - 1 ...... Team B - 1

So if you are keeping score by results, it's 1-1. If you are keeping score by total number of runs, Team A wins 18-5.

But my understanding is they (PokerStars) treat each week on it's own merit. That's why they each got a fresh $150K this week.
Except that you can't spend runs or use them for another game. There's only one way to keep score in cash games and that's with cash/chips.
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03-29-2011 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skcuSnawD
What are you talking about? Get off Isildur's nuts.

He made a bad fold with Kings or standard fold to an overbet.

Isildur is nothing special except all these kids that make him to be. Without Stars he would be going broke over and over again.
oops! you made some mistakes, dont worry i fixed all that up for ya

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03-29-2011 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Except that you can't spend runs or use them for another game. There's only one way to keep score in cash games and that's with cash/chips.
Please re-read my last line. Daniel didn't 'reload' for 150k (or reload at all for the first match).

The terms of the match are very clear.

$150K roll each, 2500 hands. Winner for the challenge is either the person who is ahead at the end of 2500 hands OR gets all the other persons money.

So it's not a traditional cash game. It's more like a SitnGo with a fixed number of chips (and hands).

So there is a beginning and an end to the matches. Each one is scored individually.
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03-29-2011 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunni74
Depends on how you are keeping score.


Two baseball teams play 2 games

Team A wins the first 15-1
Team B wins the second 4-3...

What's the score? Team A - 1 ...... Team B - 1

So if you are keeping score by results, it's 1-1. If you are keeping score by total number of runs, Team A wins 18-5.

But my understanding is they (PokerStars) treat each week on it's own merit. That's why they each got a fresh $150K this week.
Reminds me of the 1961 w0rld series. The yankees scored like 49 runs total,the pirates scored 13 runs.But the pirates won it all.
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03-29-2011 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunni74
Please re-read my last line. Daniel didn't 'reload' for 150k (or reload at all for the first match).

The terms of the match are very clear.

$150K roll each, 2500 hands. Winner for the challenge is either the person who is ahead at the end of 2500 hands OR gets all the other persons money.

So it's not a traditional cash game. It's more like a SitnGo with a fixed number of chips (and hands).

So there is a beginning and an end to the matches. Each one is scored individually.
There is nothing like a SNG, because the winner doesn't recieve anything of being up an certain amount after 2500 hands apart from being up 2500 hands "wohoo" im stuck on hand 2501???.

IN a sng you recieve the other persons monies or loses it, period.
To continue with your sports analogy, 1-1 in games, but in order to seed the teams into playoffs you need to decide it somehow, and most commonly you go by internal points/scores/goals if you cannot decide by internal matches.

No true highstakes player would ever see this challenge as something you play "match per match", its no beginning and ending, it's basically just a stipulation to be FORCED to play 2500 hands in one session against isildur1, which is not ideal since most ppl aren't as good as long stretches of 4-6tabling as him unless you get him on monkeytilt.

More like, "is there ANYONE out there that have the guts to play me for 2500 hands in one session at 50/100"-kinda challenge, you win the glory of taking up on the challenge of standing up to him, but that's it, you survived congrats, now do it again. and again, and again. However in daniels case, fine.. you stood up to him in one part of the 2500 section, but got slaughtered in the first one, it doesnt make you a winner, just not enough of a loser to lose every game, variance does occur in sports aswell, but the internal score usually points in the direction of the better team, if you got a team with 3-3 and have to bet on the last game id would be more inclined to bet on the team that have a wins of 15-1, 15-3, 15-2 and lost games when it was 0-1, 0-1, 1-2.

Last edited by Lana_Lang; 03-29-2011 at 04:26 PM.
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03-29-2011 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy64
So you're saying his friends only gave general advice? They never looked at isi's hands and said hey dn you should call with hand x or better every time he shoves the river because we've determined that's the weakest hand that you can profitable call with? Even if they did i guess i don't see that much of a problem but i think it's silly to think that they never got into player specific strategy
As has been well put already, just stop this. Who cares? It isn't cheating. It isn't close to cheating. It isn't sleazy and it isn't wrong. If I had played a long HU session against you, and I called every poker buddy I knew and we pulled out all the hand histories, did EV calcs on every hand, and hired a coach to call in to devise a strategy against you the next time we played, it would be completely OK. We could chart your PF tendencies, we could share notes, we could print your avatar on the wall and throw darts at it. Not only isn't it that much of a problem, it is completely above board.

What happened the last time we played isn't confidential. Since poker was invented, people talked about how to beat other people. The whole NVG meme about how discussing specific hands is somehow off limits is tilting. It makes me think anyone who says these things doesn't actually play to make money.
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03-29-2011 , 10:20 PM
DN elaborating a winning strategy for his friend Durr:

Quote:
RealKidPoker (twitter):

@Tom_Dwan you need to start triple range merging your marginal hands with ovebet cbets on dry boards k?
Isildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu ShowdownIsildur1 vs. Daniel Negreanu Showdown Part II Quote
03-30-2011 , 05:29 AM


Here's a vid starting from DN being down to his last $30k. make sure to watch it in 720p or you might not be able to see whats going on
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03-30-2011 , 06:09 AM
Good work, many thx for the vid.
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