since I'm a huge Ziig nuthugger I wanna bump this and add that if I were to redo the original post, he has now broken into the top 10 for PLO with 2.5 million earned on his "Ilari FIN" account on Pokerstars.

e) He likes to gamble and will accept negative EV on Stars just like he plays negative EV craps. Doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anything about FTP.

Ragetard fanboys on the internet aren't to good at actually reading people's posts before they write replies.

Why isn't "scout326" on the loser list?

I too, cannot get over these things.

HighstakesDB doesn't track the games where he's lost most of his money.

lol, show me some leaks. Pretty funny how people are questioning Ivey's results since they might be the result of cheating while he's been crushing live for years and years.

how many of the biggest losers in NLHE are Guy? i see 2 screennames that i recognize as him.

noataima, elmariachimacho, lady marmelade and patatino

IIRC if you add up all his rumoured SNs he lost somewhere between 25 and 30 million on FTP.

I want to preface this by saying I'm probably one of the biggest Ivey nut huggers in existence...but...

People defending him without even an ounce of doubt in their minds are being very naive. I've seen this EXACT pattern emerge over and over again on this site.

With Jungleman and DIH and Girah it was the same crap. People defending them and calling doubters idiots and conspiracy theorists.

Look, people HAVE brought out some evidence. The evidence is that Ivey's stats don't really make sense on the face of them. His stats, when looked at by experts, seem to have many leaks. And yet he wins at a rate which seems impossible even if he did happen to have an edge on the very best players.

You have to look at evidence like this and think that something seems a little fishy. I hate to say it, because I love the way Ivey has dominated the game of poker. It's amazing to behold. I love the guy's mystique.

But either he's been very lucky, or so good that nobody at all understands what he's doing theoretically as a poker player--or maybe, just maybe, he's a very good player who also had some help to be even better.

As for motivation, greed is always the answer. Don't think why he would bother when he made so much money in the game--none of us knows what he spends, what his debts were, what he actually won in lost in various pit games, business ventures, his divorce, etc. And even the richest people in the world will do shady stuff to get richer.

People motivated solely by money are probably more likely to cheat if they think the risk is worth the reward. If Ivey did cheat, he likely calculated correctly because its difficult to imagine it will ever be proven now.

But that said, based on the evidence at hand--he's either very, very lucky, or supernaturally gifted to a degree that makes Einstein look like Corky--or he cheated.

I would never accuse someone of cheating without any proof.
Especially when he's proved he's a genius live as well making it more likely that his results are genuine.

What about 5-10 heads up

Don't know about the internet but I can almost guarantee you that Ilari was staked by Patrik in the WSOP 2009 cash games as the games were 4K/8K PLO (I think) which would mean 800K 100bb deep, or about 1/4 of Ilari's hsdb roll and (I'm guessing here) maybe 1/7th of Ilari's total roll. As bad as Ilari can tilt at times, I'm betting he was staked. Prob (again guessing) by Patrik.

I also believe its pretty common knowledge they played on each others accounts.

yepp, this.

god i still cant believe how many ******s there still are that just look at these lists or tableratings and swear its actually accurate or even close to being their whole online poker career that year. this thread shouldn't have so many pages

They definitely did early on...

but my guess is that they stopped when PA was made Team FT. Just a guess but I imagine they would be more careful with that kind of thing at that point.

As for idontpoop re: Ilari being staked in the huge 3k-6k plo games in 2009: again that's just speculation. at the time of the 2009 WSOP Ilari was up a lot on FTP and had coinflip and powerpoker sponsoring him, plus since he was winning on FTP we can assume he was liekly to be winning when he played on Euro networks like Betfair... he lost 3.5 million in Chinese poker during that trip (or it might have been a different one a few months later if I'm getting the mixed up) so he obviously had a lot more money than we can guess just from his HighstakesDB graph

im bored but forced to do this

I wonder if any site has tracked all the tv cash games and has stats on that, I'd like to know over all whose the biggest winner in TV cash games and what the number is...

Don't know about any other TV cash games, but here's the results for High stakes Poker:

Daniel Negreanu -2,000,150

wow

jus wowow

over few 100 hands?

Don't think anybody has done all TV cash games but there was an epic effort a while back to track all HSP winnings (seasons 1-7) on 2+2, these are the final tallies from that effort:

Top 10 winners:

Tom Dwan +1,756,500
David Benyamine +904,150
Johnny Chan +616,600
Mike Matasow +609,350
Doyle Brunson +538,150
Patrik Antonius +418,490
Phil Ruffin +396,700
Phil Ivey +332,400
Eli Elezra +312,650
Erick Lindgren +273,550

Top 10 losers

Jamie Gold -217,140
Daniel Alaei -222,300
Erik Boneta -233,400
Shawn Sheikhan -243,900
Dario Minieri -328,400
Ilari Sahamies -362,150
Robert Croak -372,500
Bill Klein -430,700
Phil Galfond -431,500
Daniel Negreanu -2,000,150

________________________________________

btw re: Ivey's crazy / suspicious looking stats & tendencies. I re-watched a load of televised cash games after I looked up his stats and to be honest, Ivey plays very similarly live as well, i.e. lots of pots OOP, rabid blind defense, check-raising a ton and just generally being more aggressive than a drunk Russian bear who's just come back from work to find his wife in bed with a panda (which is very aggressive btw). If he had HEM, his redline would make all of BBV instajizz imo.

Also if there were any superusing / advantageous card distribution for him on FTP I think it would be reflected in his W$SD stat but for all his NLH hands this stat is 48%. Don't get me wrong, I love a good scandal, but based on what I've seen I can't help thinking that Ivey just is a soul-pwning wizard.

This. And the bold bit in particular.

Completely agree. I don't think I've heard any of the players he regularly played against suggest he could be cheating in any way. In fact, all the top pros repeatedly says how out of the world his play is. Why is there any suggestion he cheated? It's ridiculous.

Conclusion: He doesn't even know he he is cheating. None of the pros know except for Lederer/Fergerson.