While Jeff is aware of the criticism being leveled at him by some of the more pessimistic elements of this forum, I think the recent silence by him is due to some sort of confidentiality agreement in place at the moment or due to the fact that we now enter the DoJ phase.

Don't anser this one! its the online poker equivalent of "do you think i got fatter?"

Perhaps DoJ need to know US player actual deposits (costs) in order to calculate actual winnings (profit / gain) that are then subject to tax.

There's a chance DoJ will already have individual total deposits figure available to them, but put the onus on 'the applicant' to prove total costs (deposits) and there's a chance the total will be lower (hard to remember deposit method, some payment processors no longer exist - hard to get proof). Lower costs = higher profits = IRS / DoJ profit

Or perhaps the DoJ are going to compensate the fish (net losers, make them whole) then allocate any remaining monies in the fund to the winners kinda Robin Hood of poker style

Established 3 months ago; the source looks solid You do realise most these 'writers' get their stories from this thread don't you? Anyone ever heard of K Reenee before?

I do realize that the stories should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm just worried that the DOJ will take a "Madoff" type approach and let people file for "deposits" and not "winnings."

Because a lot of people play poker entirely online and have no interaction with the human race other than through transfer of electrons.

It's like being a savant. They do one thing really really well, almost to perfection, but possess no social skills whatsoever.

Of course that's the approach they will take, that's the only approach legally available to them, but this case is different from the typical "Madoff" type case in that the winnings were the only thing legitimate (some deposits were phantom), whereas in ponsi schemes the 'profits' are what is phantom.

What these lawyers suggesting that winnings won't be paid fail to accept is that winnings are deposits even more legitimate than a bank wire, so while true that your refund will be limited to your deposits, and anyone who withdrew more than they deposited will be held liable to the victims, that does not exclude winnings from being paid.

In most fraud cases the account balances are essentially meaningless so a special master is appointed to try to figure out what everyone is owed, this is a unique case where except for the simple addition/subtraction of uncleared deposits and withdrawals the balances are not in question, so I would not be shocked if the DOJ filed a motion to make an interim distribution of that 80M dollars Tapie is paying to all the victims pro rata possibly even before petitions are accepted.

As far as the DOJ requiring proof of tax compliance or using this case to do some kind of round up, that's just absurd, in the BDF fraud case the DOJ filed a motion to pay remission without so much as a SSN since many of the victims were illegal aliens.

Put the cliffs back in the OP. I think RJ probably accidentally moved them to Poker Headlines instead of copying them. (In general, you guys should PM me or RJ when something like that happens. I see it got discussed a little ITT, but we don't read every post, so that went unnoticed.)

The cliffs are definitely missing stuff, though. If you boys and girls want to suggest some additions, I've got some time on my hands.

Will probably work like pokerstars distributed their checks. They will open up FT poker software and you click withdraw yourself in your account and they send you a check.

This would be awesome. But if the DoJ is "handling applications" is this even an option or part of one (potentially)?

No.

The DoJ statement may have said something like 'US players will be paid out by GBT when they relaunch' rather than 'the DoJ will be responsible for payments to US players' if there was even the remotest possiblity of payment via the cashier.

Remember it is the DoJ establishing a 'fund' that US players make an 'application' for 'compensation' to. Doesn't sound much like log in and cashout.

Bitar's more likely to turn up at your door with a check and a bunch of flowers

(With apologies to mods)

And an offer to toss your salad if you'll take the fall for him.

Actually scratch that... never even seen a salad.

Does anyone know, definitively, the language used that makes everyone think that remission will be the process in which US players receive their money from FTP/DOJ?

I know FTP said the DOJ will handle US repayment, but is remission the only process in which players can be paid back. I know PS just sent out checks/bank xfers/wires, obv the situations are different, but certainly they had to have the DOJ's blessing to do so.

In this article Subject:Poker refers to "sources" who outline the remission process. The article also quotes Ifrah as saying that the U.S. payback details have been worked out between the three parties.

But whatever. When the DoJ tells me what to do, I'll do it.

Subject Poker

Updated 10/2 at 9:09 AM EDT.

The United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York has released a statement clarifying its position with regard to Full Tilt Poker and players who are owed money by the site. Though the statement makes no commitments, it is remarkable in that it discusses the possibility of the DOJ compensating players directly:

After the amended complaint in United States v. Pokerstars et al., 11 Civ. 2564 (LBS), was filed on September 22, 2011, the United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York received a number of new inquiries from individuals regarding the recovery of their funds from Full Tilt Poker.

By way of background, in April of 2011, this Office entered into a domain-name use agreement with Full Tilt Poker. That agreement, among other things, expressly authorized Full Tilt Poker to return player funds to players. However, as the September 22 amended complaint alleges, Full Tilt Poker did not in fact have player funds on hand to return to players. Instead, the amended complaint alleges that Full Tilt Poker had, among other things, (a) transferred significant amounts of players’ real money deposits to principals of the company, while (b) allowing many players to continue to gamble, and “win” and “lose,” with phantom credits in their player accounts.

At this time, this Office, together with the FBI and other agencies, is attempting to trace, secure and forfeit as much as possible of the funds derived from operation of the fraud committed by Full Tilt Poker and its board members that is alleged in the amended complaint. The Office is also attempting to obtain and examine the books and records of Full Tilt Poker. Many of those books and records are kept overseas. The return of forfeited funds to victims of the alleged fraud may be possible, but will depend on several factors, including the successful conclusion of the litigation, the amount of funds seized and ordered forfeited by the court, and compliance with other procedures the Department of Justice may eventually establish regarding return of forfeited funds to victims who lost money as a result of the alleged fraudulent conduct.
We cannot predict the duration of proceedings in this case, other than to state that they will last for many months at the least. We will apprise victims of the alleged fraud of future developments as appropriate. General information regarding what is known as “remission” (i.e., return to victims) of funds that have been seized and forfeited is set forth in Department of Justice regulations found at 28 C.F.R. Part 9.

Personally I think it's still too early to make assumptions. The USAO has significant latitude on how to handle this, and until they make a formal statement, or something is memorialized in a formal, definitive agreement, I think many people are assuming the worst case scenarios.

Because things change on at least a daily basis, technically the DOJ could decide to make repayments based on remission, mitigation, restoration or some other avenue. Some would obviously be considered more player friendly than others. Some could take a year, some could take a week.

The easiest way would be to fire up software and ask for withdrawal applications based on proven account balances. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the account balances you last saw in your account have been altered (except for redeposit of limbo funds) If you have outstanding echeck deposits, they get auto subtracted from your balance (if they haven't been already). If you have never submitted ID for a withdrawal, you should be prepared to do so now. If you have not used your real name or some other stupid workaround, be prepared for the consequences.

If you are part of the "phantom echeck" crowd, be ready to pay up. If you took advantage by closing your account after making numerous deposits and chip dumped them off, or some other scam, I hope you are held accountable. We just don't know what the plans are, and until we do, just recognize everything here as speculation.

I have no inside information on what the final resolution might be, just let's not claim the sky is falling before chicken little even shows up.

I don't think Ifrah said anything about how the funds will be paid back in that article. But it does mention DOJ repayment as remission. So I guess it will be through remission.

I assume the sale of FTP assets to GBT from the DOJ, are not going to be seized, obv, and won't be forfeited as it will be a sale.

Still hoping it won't be remission.

Any estimate on the timeline for repayment and our estimated amount we will receive back?

Funds in your bank account by morning.

For the DoJ to sell assets to GBT, they must first obtain title to the assets. They do this via forfeitire. When they sell the forfeited assets to GBT, the money they obtain may be availabl efor remissiion, as long as the offenses which led to teh forfeiture are related to the offence that caused players to lose money.

Remission is not the only process by which US players might be compensated, In addition to the possibilities listed above by Diamond_Flush, thwre is also restitution, and there may also be other mechnisms that arise from a settlement agreement between the DoJ and FTP.

The fact they state that they are going to wait until the successful conclusion of the litigation and then later state that it will be at least many months leads me to believe US players will be lucky to see any money in 2012.

The most recent big story about FTP was essentially about FTP's shareholders agreeing to settle the civil case with the DOJ.

My main concern is that this new release seems to indicate that the DOJ is preparing players for the long haul. The use of the terms "many months" and "at least" is particularly concerning. If there was a chance funds were to be returned soon I wouldn't imagine they would use such wording.

Good thing you're talking about a press release from many months ago, then...

Assets will probably be forfeited. I assume those assets are not the money that will be used to pay the US players. That money seems to be the cash from the sale from the DOJ to GBT, when if ever it happens, and maybe some cashed frozen from prior DOJ action. So I guess if they mix that money and consider it all seized it would fall under the DOJ definition of remission that we have to go by.

This was before the deal between the DOJ and GBT. So I don't know if it applies to things currently. Also the litigation against FTP would be over if the deal goes through, as the DOJ has agreed to drop the suit against FTP, but not the individual people, Ray, Howard, ect., which I don't think effects payouts.

Ah ok I just saw notice posted in this thread and assumed it was new, my bad