Depends if the DOJ wants the money returned to the players before FTP gets it's new license or if they allow them to return it when they open back up in April.

In April good chance online poker regulation is passed already.

Pretty sure FTP are in the worst spot to get a US facing license!

Will all named plaintiffs in lawsuits against FTp have to sign a release before receiving any of their money?

All of the pending lawsuits have the potential to make things very complicated.

eyescrew, the context of "worth it" is clearly from the buyers perspective. The whole reason this thread is 120 pages long is in relation to the ongoing discussion of players getting their money back. Whether or not it works out for tapie long term is really another issue. In the context of the here and now, it was worth it for him, whether or not he ends up being wrong.

Recommend delaying the hookers and blow until cash is in teh pockets.
"Many's a slip 'twixt cup and lip," as they say (in the 1750s).
But obv. the very best development that could have come out of this so far.

Also nice to see that AGCC is back in everyone's good books. There was some serious hate being poured out on to them a while back. Look's like poeple will be cool with them back in the saddle now - player's cash will be OK this time, surely?!

PS: Exoendo, I just caught epilepsy from your new avatar!

What's to stop Full Tilt insiders from lining their friends accounts with cash so that they get paid out. With all of the shady transfers going on with that company I find it hard to believe that there will ever be a true accounting of who legitimately is owed what.

If one of the sponsored pros just got an advance for one million in his poker account from Full Tilt, that money will be sent to HIM. Imagine how many crazy deals like that are out there.

Then you get into the obvious money laundering that goes on every single minute on every site and you have real problems here.

I just hope that the insiders at Full Tilt didn't add money to their friends and families accounts after this story broke. I mean, they already proved they are willing to bribe a bank to process illegal transactions. Do you really think they are beyond creating some funny money accounts for themselves? What's the DOJ going to do, go over every single account and analyze a million transactions? I don't think so.

I have to put the odds of getting paid in full in the next 12 months at about 1.5 percent. One point five percent.

This thing is going to end badly for players. It can't end any other way.

Just to play devils advocate. If it comes out that shareholders returned 100% of the money and that is how a sale went through, would that change opinions about them or no way?

Yes.

for the ones that didn't have day to day involvement, I would say absolutely. Though its' important not to go to far with praise as they are really just returning stolen money. It's not a matter of going above and beyond, they just brought themselves up to baseline.

I mean.. FTP's pretty incompetent, but it would be a new level of incompetence if there's actually a way to change a players' account balance in their system without leaving a record of it.

The only reason that I (and as a result the public) learned about a bunch of shady transactions is because they left records that they probably would have preferred not to leave, so that suggests to me that they at least got something right.

I don't think that the bolded logically follows from the other stuff you posted at all. Even if FTP decided to give some of their friends some extra money in their accounts, this wouldn't hurt the DOJ, it would hurt Tapie in the sale, he's the one that has to cover the player accounts. Why would they want to inflate the sale price? That would hurt their ability to sell at all.

So I highly doubt there's millions in "friend payments" or false account out there right now. If anything, I would have suspected that FTP would shut those accounts down (if they existed) once the site went offline to ensure that that money "owed" wouldn't show up on the balance sheets.

You are grossly misinformed. Please stop spreading lies.

Ftp isn't paying us anymore. We are getting paid by Tapie through the DOJ. FTP is cut out of the picture.

HAHAHAHAHA! I must high-five you for that new avatar, just sayin'. Other than that, /derail. Weeeee, we might see our money soon!






- NMHU.

We don't know the details and therefore we don't know if any of what you wrote is correct, except that Bitar and Burtnick continue to face criminal charges.

We don't know if GBT is paying out ROW players in full. While it might look like he must, if he is to entice players to come back, there persist reports that he is continuing to poll market acceptance of ways to avoid paying out in full at the get go.

Furthermore, we don't know how much of the money to pay back US players is being put up by GBT, and we don't know from the S:P report that US players will be paid in full.

It is hard to see how $390M will both pay out all players in full (assuming about $300M is owed to players), and satisfy a suit that sought $1B and ownership of all FTP assets. $90M doesn't seem like much to put against $1B plus the market value of FTP's assets.

While the Bitar memo implies the deal will affect current owner interests in the FTP companies, it is unclear whether that effect could go so far as to have all ownership interest extinguished.

There is some chance that criminal charges will be laid against Bitar, Lederer, Ferguson and Furst regarding the fraud the DoJ alleges in the ammended civil complaint. There is a lesser chance of charges against other owners, only if evidence turns up showing that they were aware the dividend payments were improper or actively conspired with the Directors regarding those payments.

If owners were unaware of the circumstances surrounding the improper dividend payments, they are legally entitled to retain them. If the full amount of the improper payments can be recovered from the Directors(who are legally responsible for them), then I would suggest that the other owners are even morally entitled to retain them.

Since we have no idea what GBT will acquire or how the new FTP will be structrued, it is quite conceivable that current FTP owners will have some stake in at least a part of what emerges from the deal. For instance, perhaps they keep an ownership interest in the software, and get royalty payments or usage fees. Given what has and has not been alleged, how can it be unjust that innocent non-Director owners retain something of value?

You've posted this more than once I believe. I'm not saying you're wrong but you sound so sure this is exactly how it's playing out and I was wondering where you heard this.

My point is it could play out the way you're suggesting but it seems like there are other ways US player payouts could play out also.

Exo... You were implying earlier that FTP had significant value and the company would 100% be bought because it was worth more than their liabilities. Many agreed with you but myself and others didn't think FT was worth more than their liabilities. I didn't doubt players would see some of their money at some point. I did question whether they were going to see all of it since getting 100% payback seemed to rely on an investor coming along that was willing to put up $350 million + DOJ fine. The investor finally came along but it's unclear at this point exactly what his investment is. As long as players get paid back it doesn't really matter but the way things are unfolding is quite different than your implication that a knight in shining armor would come along to save FTP and all of the players. Especially if it's shown the DOJ dropped its civil forfeiture lawsuit and significantly reduced the $1 billion fine they were seeking.

The planets and stars seem to be aligning, for our funds to be returned, for online poker to be legalized, it took 3/4's of a year but things are starting to look up. For poker players at least

That is not what has been reported. The report is of an agreement in principal between the DoJ and GBT. FTP was not a party to the deal. An agreement in principal can be a long way from a final deal.

I wouldn't go so far as "definitely". GBT still needs to finalize a deal with the DoJ; then he needs to make a deal with FTP. Then he needs to decide to pay out in full, and the DoJ has to decide that US players are owed what those players think they are owed.

Your questions are good ones. I would say that, wouldn't I, since many are similar to ones I posted earlier?

Perhaps you should include Furst along with Bitar, Lederer and Ferguson.

I gotta agree with EYESCREW on this. There is no way to conclude from the S:P article or the Bitar memo that GBT is paying the whole shot (or even a signiificant portion) of paying out US players in full.

There is talk of GBT making a payment to the DoJ, but how much is it, and how much is for the fine, how much is for purchasing the assets and how much is explicitly for paying players? We don't know. We don't even know, from those sources, that US players will be paid in full.

Suggestion to players...

"Cautious optimism" but optimism nonetheless. ::::fingers crossed:::: because the poker community could sure use a huge cash infusion right about now.

The Bitar memo is the only attributed source for the S:P story. As is their wont, S:P claim confirmation from a plethora of other unnamed sources. While it is good journalism to get confirmation of a story from multiple sources, it isn't great journalism to constantly report with only a single attributable source, especially one that is widely seen to be unreliable. However, sometimes that is the price you gotta pay to put out a story. I'm sure we are all properly grateful to S:P for their diligent work.

A link to a subsequent French interfview with Laurent Tapie, in which he predicts a final deal with the DoJ within two weaks was posted (today?) in either this thread or the related thread. I didn't read it closely, but I take it to confirm, at least by implication, the S:P story.

Net result: you don't have to rely on Ray Bitar alone for this story.

If the new FTP is established by purchase of the old FTP, the new FTP inherits any lawsuit against the old FTP that has a cause of action that survives any player payouts that may be made.

If the new Full Tilt buys only certain assets, but not the old companies themselves, then perhaps the new FTP is not exposed to the remaining lawsuits.

aggo here,

First, I question the legality of partial payback of player funds. I think that it is well established that this is not a viable option. Although Bitar's email is very confusing, he deliberately writes that the DOJ will reimburse americans; hence my position that it is the DOJ that will pay back players, through Tapie giving them money.

Yes, I have 2 accts. It stems from a long standing issue with this one, where I no longer have access to the email to which it is originally registered to. Combine this with the problem of forgetting my pw, I can only post from my phone which autologs me in.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=454

wtf is this ****.

seems pretty random

This is about to blow up into a huge mess for several hours/days until it's confirmed to be a total misunderstanding. That really should not have been posted until undeniably confirmed.