If you open NVG and click on the post count number that's next to the thread, you can get the stats. (More relevantly, you can click on the numbers there and see every post by a specific poster in a thread really easily. That's really nice for catching up on long threads quickly.)

Hat tip to Joe Tall for showing me that at some point.

Thanks, Noah, for all your hard work in keeping us informed. It's a little before six in the morning in Italy; 9 PM Las Vegas time; it looks to be a good day. I don't have a lot of money with FTP and, of course, I am a ROW player, but I have a positive outlook. The inertia is now strongly in favor of a deal occurring; too many people are getting something to let it fall apart. Thanks again.

Noah could you speculate on how this DOJ repayment fund will work? Does the DOJ even have the money to repay US players? I thought I had read that most of the money frozen over the years had already been forfeit and redistributed, aka not there anymore.

Tapie gives money to doj, doj pays US players ...
Tapie reopens ftp.

It should be mentioned again that Tapie wants FTP opened as soon as it can be. When you fork over hundreds of millions, you want progress made quickly. So maybe doj will work quick.

My opinion is that once the doj gets the money from tapie to pay US players, and ftp gets a regulator (which means tapie proves he can cover row balances) that's the day they shuffle up and deal .

I think that upon receipt of the US player balances in cash from tapie that the doj will take sometime to compensate players ..

I hope the doj does pay it b4 the holidays. Or at least have that date as a goal in there planning

I WAS WRONG.

After the AGCC released their statement and the DOJ released theirs in reference to players being victims I posted that we should give up all hope of a sale being agreed to by the DOJ.

Even after the acquisition agreement I was very skeptical that Tapie was even serious as the terms he seemed to be offering sounded like a kids Christmas list for Santa Claus.

Tapie and/or his lawyer were a lot smarter than me, realizing both why the DOJ would be motivated to reach an agreement as well as that if they worked the deal out the way it appears, the DOJ gets to have it's cake and eat it too.

There was no viable way the DOJ could give the new owner remission from the old owner, and had a new owner stepped up and paid all the players there would be no case for fraud, since the money FTP paid themselves could then be technically viewed as equity.

By the DOJ handling the repayment of US players, not only does FTP stay out of insolvency allowing the DOJ to maintain control of remission, but because the repayment of US players will be handled as DOJ remission from seizures and/or fines, the case against FTP for fraud is still on the table.

I know a lot of people will say LDO this is the way they predicted it was going to happen, but while patting yourselves on the back save some credit for Dayanim and the DOJ, because this is in my opinion a brilliant agreement they worked out - whether everyone ends up getting 100% of their funds or not.

Way to man up and admit that you were wrong, props.

Calm down. I guess you missed my other posts after this news came out defending you in the face of all of the "HAHAAH BURN HDEMET, SUCK IT DRY HATERS" posts that were being made. I've been as fair to you and your opinion as anyone, and even when I've disagreed with you, I've defended you multiple times in the face of character accusations from everybody.

The point is that it's amazing how disappointed you sound in your post. For the first time it actually made me question whether or not you really want this to work out. This isn't a "I guess this is sort of good news..." situation, this is a "wow, this is great news" situation. I will be the first to admit that there is a ways to go, and there is still reason to be wary about this deal going through, etc., but that doesn't make this anything less than fantastic news for all players with money locked up, USA or ROW.

And yes, I know that you're going to come back and say "tell me which arguments I've made that are inaccurate, if you can't refuse my statements then shut up". I don't need to refute any of your assertions to tell you that I think this is fantastic news for players, point blank, and it's head-shaking to see you refuse to acknowledge that yet again. I was hopeful that you'd be willing to say "wow, that's really good news, I'm surprised to see this progressing considering everything I've said. I still have my doubts though and here they are...". Most of us would have no problem with that.

in b4 we have to wait an additional month for new news.

Where's all the haters at now? Bit quite are we

The other thing that is hilarious is watching a bunch of poker players demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of probability.

What's happening in this thread is akin to someone needing to hit a two-outer with one card to come, and one person says it's 5% to happen, and another person says it's 100% going to come. Then, when it does come, the person who said it was 100% to happen starts sticking his tongue out and going "see, I told you, I was right the whole way, burn other guy". Well, we know that the chances were actually 5%, so the pessimist was right.

A deal happening does not mean that kevmode was right, nor does it necessarily mean that the pessimists were wrong. I was more optimistic than most; I never rated the value of FTP money at less than 0.70/1.00, even in the bleakest of times. If this deal goes through and everyone gets paid out 100%, It's likely that my take was more accurate than most, but logically, there's no way to prove that. It's crazy that a bunch of poker players of all people can't seem to grasp this.

Busy making donations to Subject Poker to atone for our sins.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...inent-1120942/

interesting thread.

I am not disappointed by the Doj/Tapie news and readily admit that that bit is good news and I did write this is a BIG step int he right direction.

There was alos some not quite so good news for RoW players as the bit referring to them was rather vague and much less specific than the bit referring to the US players.

However I am pleased to see that you at least havent automatically jumped to the conclusion that this is now a done deal and that everyone will definitely get their money back.

There is indeed a ways to go but I will not accept a deal is done until it has been completed and I see money going back to players (and by that I mean in full and not in dribs and drabs for RoW players). If and when a deal comes off it would seem that bthe US players are going to be safe and secure whether they are paid immediately in full or gradually over time but the improtant bit is their funds will be secrued by The DoJ.

I have serious questions to ask of the DoJ, however, as to why they will not also do the same for the RoW players as it smacks of total self interest to me.

Nothing that was in that report suggests that a deal has been concluded but it is a step closer but I am still weary of anything coming out of the FTP camp.

I eagerly await the DoJ version and what they ahve to say.

So why are the DoJ not also giving the same guarantee for RoW player funds?

I say that this may be a partial brilliant agreement as you put it but will not be so great until we know whats in stall for the RoW and I defy anyone to state that there has been a completed done deal where anyone US or RoW gets all their money back. It also has yet to be signed off as a final deal.

I still remain highly sceptical but am gradually moving to a less pessimistic viewpoint. As and when the scales tip over then and only then will I announce to you all that I am now truly happy that a deal and player money will be repaid.

Oh, wonderful irony.

I've been very polite in all of my replies to you, but I think today, on what should have been a celebratory day for all of us with thousands of dollars tied up at FT, we could have done without your depressing spin on everything.

Edit: and my unending appreciation goes out to Noah and DiamondFlush for their reporting on this!

I made comments on an email that came from Ray Bitar that were not depressing or negative specifically and got a load of personal **** for it.

Not a solitary person has critically commented on anything I said about those comments.

I agreed with the bits that I thought were good news and highlighted the bits that I thought were vague and needed further expansion and explanation.

This is a solitary email from Ray Bitar to shareholders andway too many think it equates to a finalised deal.

I sincerely hope I am not going to be in a position to say "I told you so" down the line but then thats not my style at all.

I will present my views on waht I read and expect intellegent counter argument to it not blatantly childish one liners like I was wrong or an idot or whatever as when that is the response I get I will respond likewise.

Now tell me in your words what you think that email means?

As for this being a day for celebration I think its way too premature. Its just a movement in the right direction towards players getting their money back along a very long path.

That day for celebration comes when you have your money in your possession and not before but dont let me top you from spending that money before you actually get it back.

Hey Harry i'm with you mate, however I think it's time to just let this one play out. I stopped posting about the subject as there are too many people with vested financial and emotional interest in this deal and they are all praying it goes through. This hinders their ability to see all the facts rationally and logically.

Whilst S:P's article is positive (as opposed to negative) I think most of us agree it is far from being a done deal. (Kevmode has ejaculated a little prematurely again, and there are other posters who will revel in this news as if everyone's been paid already) My personal opinion is it's best to let them have their moment, until we know all the facts.

The facts I know so far are I wouldn't trust either party as far as I could throw them. Except maybe the DoJ. Bitar, Lederer, Ferguson et al are crooks, and the Tapies are cheating scumbags who will do anything for a profit - or to win a football match. I won't be recommending playing on a new Full Tilt, whether they pay everyone or not.

I will cross my fingers and believe this deal when I see it. The key words are still 'in principle' - this is a key definition that means any deal can be scuppered by the minutest of details.

I also won't be posting on the subject again until then, I suggest you do the same for your sanity. You will only be pissing into a sea of optimism. You just won't convince those with unconditional faith to listen to what you say.

Good luck everyone.

Guys you have to remember Harry was a hero during the first AGCC hearing. He was the only one who stood up and said what we were all thinking.

He may have gone overboard in trying to curb your enthusiam since then, but he isn't the enemy. He just wants justice to be done - and so far nothing close to justice has even been suggested. Everyone getting paid is not justice. Match-fixing cheaters aquiring Full Tilt and paying people a percentage of their balances is not justice. Let's not lose sight of the crime that has been committed here, and it ain't Harry trying to make you see the negatives of any potential deal.

Thank you, that is a great analogy and should be framed on Kevmode's wall

(And the river hasn't come yet anyway. Unless the Tapies found a way to rig the river, but they wouldn't do that, would they)

Thanks for the advice and I shall heed it as I seem to be wasting my time posting stuff on here

However I sincerely hope people will refrain from attacking me directly becasue if they do I reserve the right to reply and if they post garbage about me i shall throw it back.

So lets see what the next development will be and see what comes out of this cesspit of skullduggery and fraud and theivery as perpetrated by the scum at FTP

Fwiw, the announcement of the DoJ deal being made was exactly 200 days after black friday. Let's hope it isn't another 200 if/before our funds are actually in our bank accounts.

I get the impression he felt like he was the only counter to the optimism displayed. Maybe this is why he felt the need to post so much. Also, he is Mediterranean, and I think it's pretty obvious they don't back down from arguments so quickly (us Scots are similar)


I'll say it agian - Harry was the only one to tell the AGCC what we thought of the meeting being held in-camera, and for that he gave himself a lot of credibility. Since then it has descended into unnecessarily personal posts, when we should be focussing on what really happened, and what sort of deal is realistic. I don't think he was wrong in saying the Tapie deal was unrealistic (and it still may prove to be)

Let's stop Harry bashing and get back to Bitar bashing.

I think ROW is somewhat self guaranteed by the fact that they are Tapie's customer base, so screwing them would just be shooting himself in the foot.

Beyond that, Tapie was going to have to come up with something out of pocket in this deal or it would just appear to be a US government bailout of an online poker site.

I really think this deal is the best of both worlds, and fits most of what you said in this thread; the player base would need to be divided, a buyer wouldn't put up the full $350M, the DOJ would have to make major concessions, etc.

Unlike myself, you didn't flat out say it wouldn't happen, you just repeated over and over again what the obstacles were, so all the crow is on my plate.

What the hell thread were you reading? I signed in and read this thread day in and day out. The people being 'negative' significantly out weighed the reverse. With the exception of kevmode, the so called 'optimists' like myself were a lot more reserved with putting such strong opinions out there both because we don't like to make definitive statements when we aren't sure and because it isn't that fun to post them in a thread full of people being negative all the time who are so sure we were living in fantasy land.

I found it an incredibly significant and overlooked accusation that aggo made at Harry. Harry even responded to his post without commenting on it. He basically said Harry pushed very hard to get a prior serious investor NOT to pay US players. If this is true, Harry deserves the wrath he has received and about 10,000x more. I have speculated in prior posts that he is a flat out bad person with nefarious motives and people just thought I was off base. While there are good people who benefit from FTP going under, doing anything to help that happen makes you scum.

As to this news and what it means, it is obviously very good news. It is very good news for ROW players too, despite what a few people are trying to pretend. Why the hell would GBT be buying FTP if screwing his only customer base was what he would do. No matter how cash outs are facilitated, you can be sure ROW players won't be truly 'screwed' in any major way. I don't take the idea of being paid out over a moderate time period being 'screwed' in any way given the alternative. Obviously FTP2 must try to make ROW players happy. With the exception of Harry, who I think was just on a vendetta and pushing for something else, the negative people in this thread often lacked logical reasoning abilities. This is not to say that people shouldn't have been worried and that FTP was definitely going to bounce back but the way people made it out to be such a one outer made no sense.

Basically ALL parties involved had significant incentive for players to get paid back and this, as I have said, includes the DoJ. FTP going under is a huge pain in the #$@ for the DoJ on a number of levels. Obviously they could deal with it if forced to, but a buyout is such a better alternative for them. FTP obviously would rather get sold then go under and probably take even more DoJ wrath and obviously a buyer wants to try to come to terms of a +EV deal for himself.

To what extent this board member vote is a hurdle, I don't know, and would love to hear peoples opinions on that if they have any info.

So in all of this do the old owners walk away scot free? Are they going to own a bit of the new FT?

If that is what it takes for everybody to get their money back (and I don't suppose anybody knows for certain at this point) then so be it I guess, the greater good obviously is people getting repaid, and I am delighted this seems to be happening.

But if the current owners are going to get away with this massive theft, then I won't be playing on the new FT, and the idea of Howard Lederer etc turning up at poker tournaments etc etc (if it happens) turns my stomach, and is the final nail in the coffin for me as to whether there is any integrity in the game of poker or not.
If you can get away with it, do it...





Edity - or if they get away with it does it mean their gamble paid off and it was a brilliant move by the old owners of FT all along? lol