They're not inflating the numbers.

DOJ seized $331M and US players stole $128M. The problem is that FTP thought there won't be any problem like BF when the majority of the players start to withdraw.

No company would survive this. Even strong financial institutions have serious liquidation problems and/or go bankrupt if all their customers withdraw. But FTP would survive this without DOJ seizures. So the only one to blame here is the DOJ.

"US Players stole $128 million" STFU you Troll FTP Shill

Good point Kev.

Yes they did. This is not a breaking news, you should know.

Saying that is implying I don't know that.

And so did I. I told you that and even gave you a way to verify that.
I had to study 3 months in London to get my papers. Specifically. I am not confusing accounting terms; I am constantly forced to use wrong terms.
Really hate that, but I am not gonna write whole books about it. Made that mistake once when I tried to explain what ROI really was. Tempted to do it again now.

Meanwhile you keep avoiding my question; how are you 100% sure FTP made less than 27.5%?
It is your duty to share that important information with the pokercommunity.

So, tell me, how are you so sure FTP made less than 27.5%?


Such information is always interesting and it also helped.

The results for the pokerdivision had fallen a lot from 2009 to 2010 and upon searching for the cause I found this was reflecting increased marketing spend in Italy during the first half and the launch of www.PartyPoker.fr in July. This suddenly made me realise why France is so important.

Also continued competitive pressures and a slowdown in consumer spending forced the group to increase bonuses and other fair value adjustments with 11.7%. The operational gearing inherent within the Group’s business model meant that the reduction in net revenue, together with the cost of marketing initiatives in France and Italy impacted Clean EBITDA margins that reduced to 15.3% (2009: 21.7%).

That is the best news I heard all day
Competition is increasing and we will be getting better deals.

Don't post inflaming and unsubstantiated rhetoric. US players did not steal $128M. US players were floated loans by FTP worth $128M. While there's evidence some deliberately gamed the system once they discovered the issue, there is also evidence that many didn't, and since no one knows how much was "stolen" and how much was just honest players making deposits in good faith, to categorize the entire amount as US player theft is deliberately misleading and inflammatory.

Don't insult someone when you disagree with them. You can disagree politely, or not at all.

Sorry RJ but that one just got to me, I will restrain myself

My bad, I didn't mean to hurt anyone with this. I realize that a big percentage of the missing $128M was not intentional.
Also, I don't blame US players, the reason that happened in the US is because it's related to a US specific deposit option. This could happen in other countries as well.
I just want to emphasize that the DOJ seizure and these missing US deposits are the main cause of the current situation.
We can blame FTP for the horrible mismanagement, but the reason they can't pay their players is mainly because the aboves.

The DOJ goes after companies and people they believe are violating US law. FTP fits the bill. One of the ways they do this is by freezing funds. This is exactly what they did - this is what they were supposed to do. They did this to PS as well - didn't stop them from repaying any player deposits.

The "mismanagement defense" doesn't fly. FTP cooked the books and siphoned nearly every single penny out. They 100% to blame.

I apolgize as well for a smartmouth response! I have friends with small BRs stuck while I luckboxed clear.

That doesn't wash with me, IMO.

They knew about the DOJ seizures when they happened, yet still chose to operate in the US, and claimed the seized funds as money still on their balance sheets when reporting their accounting to the AGCC.

They were aware they were having problems withdrawing from US banks, yet still chose to operate in the US, and chose to continue floating those loans without informing the the players what was going on.

On top of all that, they also continued to pay out dividends of over $400M to shareholders. You do realize that the amount of dividends they paid out is enough to cover the cost of the DOJ seizures and much of the floated loans, right? How is continuing to pay out millions in dividends, including $10M on April 1st, when they knew how bad the floated loans hole was becoming, anything other than mismanagement? Lying to the AGCC is downright fraud.

FTP is the major reason why FTP is in the fix they are in. Not the DOJ, not the AGCC, not the players. At every turn, they chose not to deal with problems, but to plaster over them by stealing from players and continuing to pay out huge amounts to all of their buddies who owned pieces.

Breaking news: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...ement-1106424/

Your logic is flawed. It's true that it would be difficult to survive this $300M loss but this was the outcome of a series of DOJ actions. FTP could have pulled out of the US market well before BF as it was obviously unprofitable to serve US customers. Not only they didn't do that but they continued to pay themselves handsomely instead of covering those lossless.

I would think that they'd need to have the terms of sale all pinned down before they could sign an "acquisition deal". But how could they come to terms without knowing what the DoJ will approve/accept for fines? Or is an aquisition deal not a really a meaningful thing?

Yeah, I have no idea, really, but I'd be shocked to hear that the DOJ wasn't already aware of much of the specifics of the deal in advance, surely they would have wanted to ensure that the DOJ wasn't going to have a major objection prior to signing the deal.

I would guess that they've been keeping the DOJ informed throughout the process, and that now they just need to negotiate the exact arrangement of the DOJ fine and dropping of the rights to asset seizure, but that's a complete guess on my part.

How binding are acquisition agreements? Can they still pull out for any other reason other than the ones they put in the agreement?

so... that means we are to flame the naysayers until the doj throws this out on monday ... crap now i am to be flamed...

usually not... although it is implied that they can pull out if they received missleading information before they signed which can probably not be ruled out until you get your check in the mail...

Yes, you're right. They can be blamed for that for sure.

But I still can't understand the DOJ. They supposed to be the "good guys", but they are sitting on those seized funds. If some criminals steal my car and the police seize it from them, I should get it back.

That money belongs to the players not to FTP.

Ok, just read the breaking news, I hope they can negotiate with the DOJ on this as well.

The article said that the deal was contingent on some factors, including the DOJ, so I assume there's still a chance this falls apart, but it's the most promising news in a long time, and I wonder why they'd announce it if it wasn't closer to done than not done.

Again, I'm just thinking out loud here, I have no insider info.

Yeah I don't want to get my hopes up too much about this until I see the agreement and figure out just how easily they can pull out. With such a risky investment im certain they are doing a thorough job coveing their asses. I have too much money stuck to get my hopes up and then get crushed again.

Well, when you throw in the intricacies of both government and law enforcement, you get a giant headache when it comes to claiming frozen assets. Hopefully with the new deal, players won't have to worry about that.

This is amazing news.

Feels good to be right in my months of analysis concerning how someone would actually want to purchase ftp

Proles gonna prole.

I will probably never stop gloating if we get our money.

Most people who understand business valuations and were able to look at the public #s for Bwin pre and post 2006 would have come to a similar conclusion...