you talk about some high profile person that owes you 500K and you doubt you'll ever see a dime but you're not going to out him.
how are you going to feel if that person scams someone else for a big figure because they didn't know the supposed "high profile great player" was a deadbeat scumbag?

seems like if you know someone is representing themselves as super flush while at the same time blowing off half a milly in debt you should warn the rest of the community so they can't continue to rip other people off.

i totally understand not outing somebody in debt if they are actively trying to pay back the debt, but if someone has no intention of paying back the figure why on earth wouldn't you out them?

fwiw erick has been in contact, says he got hosed pretty hard in bowl games and is owed a bunch in outstanding debts but intends to pay, no timeframe or anything.

Daniel Negeranu is 100% wrong about this:

at no point did anyone think: "wow Erick is this awful at fantasy football we should make side bets with him even if he doesn't pay for years". Pretty sure he did a good job managing his team and was hosed with injuries at the end despite having one of the better teams. I am sure if there was an edge it wasn't big enough to justify such a risk (no way any of the side bets made were 2-1 favorites), clearly you are pretty clueless on the variance in fantasy football, or sports betting in general. The bets were X amount per week Y amount per season and there is huge huge variance in the weekly bets regardless of overall team strength/skill whatever you want to call it.

Anyways, don't really want to go into huge detail about everything but ill just say we are looking at other options to get paid with all outstanding debt in these fantasy leagues.

[x] easily manipulated by carefully worded mainstream propaganda

I apologize. You just had a rubbernecker reaction to a guy who won ONE tournament. People speculating on who owes DN and others big money that DN brought up are PATHETIC. Keep on truckin on. 20 posts till you are EL's sweater?

seriously , since you are in "contact" would you please let Erick know that the 2p2 community would like him and the other faces of FTP , to come here and say a few words about FTP?

Being a degen is cool and all but add 350 million stolen by a company his face was all over, then its not very cool.

communicating with ur peers and humbling urself in light of this debacle can only help him going forward.

All I see is Todd ****ing Terry

I like Daniel, always have

but reading his statement about EL kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth because there is no way to draw a line with theft and deception.

Why take a baseball bat to HL and CF and make video blogs about these awful people who stole millions, right about the same time you are playing 18 holes with someone with severe debt living a life of 'optimistic' deception ?

Daniel says he knew all about how Erick was a slug paying back his debts, but for some reason he is exempt from the same treatment he wishes on HL and CF etc

Quite frankly, I don't see the difference, and I kind of lost some respect for Daniel hand picking his targets like this.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other imo. stealing and screwing people over and degen gambling habits are all one and the same. HL and CF etc were just a lot better at scamming on an infinitely bigger scale.

Daniel has no leg to stand on defending his bro-bro in any way shape or form, and I found his post to be carefully worded as if his publicist was sitting there next to him editing every word before his flight landed.

Daniel knows full well that the poker community is going to jump all over him for being tight with Erick. I just found his first 'official' statement to be ultra-sanitized so he doesn't get fingered for playing favorites

Also, not like DN hasn't been privy to this crap that has obviously been going on for a long time. Shame it took Mr.$2800.00 minus PayPal fees to bring this all out into the open

Great post summarizing Daniel's reaction to this and I couldn't agree with you more.

Also, real nice seeing Erick having fun with his thumb up at Bay 101. Can see these issues are really affecting him. Could you imagine what Daniel's reaction would be on his v-blog or post if there was a recent picture of Lederer smiling with his thumbs up??? Total double standard.

saw erick playing in a 5/5 game about 3 weeks ago in a san diego area casino. he had about 900 and the max buy in is 1500, there was also a 10/20 running that he wasnt on the board for. read into that as you will

My read: CASH BROKE!

Is Antonio Esfandiari busto as well??? Haven't heard from him in a while. Maybe he owes DN the $500,000???

The speculation is growing...

The handful of people still clinging to this idea that poker is a legitimate pursuit are totally delusional.

No matter what happens with the legalization of poker in the U.S. playing poker 'for a living' is pretty much the worst way you can spend your life.

I started playing in 02 and here we are 10 years later and if I could take it all back and never play, that would be just fine with me. Before I got turned on to poker I was making close to 70K a year and doing just fine.

The people that gravitate to this so called 'sport' are the lowest pieces of garbage on the planet. I can speak from experience because I have worked and dealt with a lot of pieces of trash in my life and I assure you, poker players are right there scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It took me all this time to finally wake up and realize that. Nothing positive seems to come from poker. NOTHING.

Here we are not even a decade after the Moneymaker boom and look at the entire industry. DOJ coming down hard on Black Friday and now scam after scam after scam after scam coming to light. This is all so pathetic.

Makes me ashamed to have ever been a part of this awful subculture.

I never got into poker for this.

what a joke

lol @ comparing EL to HL et al. edoggs a pretty std degenerate gambler it seems. howard robbed the community of hundreds of millions of dollars.

wow.

also, lot of <3 to DN's posting. takes guts to bury your friend, class to not out people, and WISDOM to not get caught up in any of the pathetic arguments against him. he has no incentive to release the information he has publicly yet still does.

my guess is hellmuth re: speculation. guy's an idiot, bad gambler, and was all about hanging with celebs and boosting his image.

No idea if it's true but post #145 in this thread seems to suggest so.

No one really commented on it so assumed it wasn't a big deal? Although if it was sold for under market value to his wife seems like a big deal to me.

How much did u lose, u suck, gtfo etc

The big debt DN ower is obv Huck Seed

It's most likely Daniel's "old school" thought process that doesn't view this individual as a deadbeat scumbag. He said himself, he often sees guys who owe him money sitting in a game, and he doesn't think twice. They'll pay him when they can. Others don't take that approach and would rather walk up on someone who owes them and take every chip in front of them. Different views.

Whoever it is, and it really doesn't matter, is likely a friend/acquaintance who had a few loans with Daniel, got behind paying some large golf bets, etc etc. Daniel just doesn't see them as a scumbag who welched on a bet or a loan so he doesn't feel the need to publicly out them. If it was someone who he truly hated, like Annie Duke, I'm sure he'd be screaming about it at the top of his lungs, but it's not someone he's looking to hurt.

For the most part, debts like this stay quiet. It's the threat of going public that usually causes people to pay, or at least make some gesture of payment on the total amount. Erick was given this opportunity and didn't act quick enough. Many people, once something goes public and they feel their reputation has been tarnished, will throw in the towel and just write you off. Sadly, you're more likely to get paid by just being quiet and leaning on people without pushing them over.

Why did Bax/Sheets only tease with the idea of publicly outing a list of those who've scammed or owe them? I'll bet that got them paid on some of those debts.

Daniel is entitled to his opinions and approach.

how much did you make? if you played the last 10 years during the glory years and didnt make a couple million then you did it wrong

Daniel is definitely a savvy tactician when it comes to managing his image

His comments about Erick have been carefully crafted and approved

If you don't think every single last word of his post wasn't scrutinized top to bottom before posting, then I have some beachfront property in Nebraska I'd like to talk to you about

no big deal, just hundreds of millions of endorsement dollars at stake and the public perception of online poker hanging in the balance

can't wait for the v-blog

So name them.

You've spent this whole thread calling DN out for his failure to publicly call out trash for being what it is.

How come the same rule doesn't apply to you? Tell us about the trash that you've worked and dealt with.

Name the guilty men.

You can't call someone else out for being a hypocrite if you aren't prepared to do personally what you're calling him out for.

I haven't been 'trashing' DN at all, in fact I have nothing but respect for him. I happen to think we are lucky to have such an affable and likable personality representing the poker world.

He is our 'face' and I don't think many people have a problem with that. He is honorable and candid. I like Daniel a lot. We are lucky to have him

I have a problem with him wanting to take a baseball bat to HL ad CF's nuts when he is golfing with EL knowing full well he owes millions.

what is the big difference here ?

I don't know anything about the high roller lifestyle floating 6 figures of golfing prop bets. I don't know how much money EL was spewing in sportsbooks.

I am just kind of bummed that close friends of Daniels seem to get a pass and his actions and behavior are all carefully and conveniently dismissed

The idea that up until a few days ago, Daniel is hacking around on the front 9 of Desert Pines with EDog having a good time bugs me.

I found his opening post on this matter carefully crafted, serving to protect his own interests, and ultimately intended to distance himself carefully from his well known close ties to EL

rightfully so

Just strikes me as a little hypocritical when he is making v-blogs about baseball bats not even 2 weeks ago

I'm having a hard time identifying the thin line between scammers and slow payers

Do you really not see the difference between being slow to pay on bets with people you know or at least have contact with and knowingly scamming millions of poker players and singlehandedly destroying the image of online poker worldwide?

I don't see this as a 'thin-line' although both are definitely wrong, if you can't see the chasm between these two acts then no one here is going to convince you otherwise so you should just stop posting

i know its sick and hard to believe, but FTP is probably the least of this guy's problems right now.

Agree but you could say poker players(leeches) make it so that non leeches have to keep working so that they also don't become a leech.

If you make money playing poker than you should be paying taxes. Does paying taxes qualify as adding something to society?

Poker is entertainment for most involved but they couldn't get that entertainment if nobody was there to take their money.

The reason daniel negreanu isnt calling them out is most likely that people have dirt on him too.

Im of the new school and learned the hard way that alot of pokerplayers are scum. Actually thats no accurate but 95% of people who will approach you for loans or money or who you end up loaning money in general are scum. Sadly it appears that many of the high profile TV figueres belong to that category. It would have saved me 100k$+ if there would have been some education for younger guys like me on how the poker worlds really is 5 years ago.

It kind of bothers me to see that daniel neagreanu covers up for those people and that will cost alot of people alot more money. Its the wrong thing to do but I bet daniel negreanu isnt pure either.

That said I know plenty of poker players who are good people, honest and upstanding and 99% of them would never approach me for money. Anyone who I have loaned money to in the poker world has been a scumbag.

Bob didn't say what EL owed him money for, but with Bob being a Professional sports handicapper, I wouldn't have any sympathy for him if the debt was from sports bets EL laid off for him.

Hypothetically, if you had a 'foolproof' betting system but couldn't get enough action through sports books, so you pushed your bets on a 'friend' whom you know to be an action junkie, the friends inability to pay pales in comparison on the morality scale to your own actions.

If that is the reason EL is indebted to Bob, then Bob needs to take a long look in the mirror, because had he chose to cut his friend in on his betting system rather than exploit him with it, they would both be better off right now, and more importantly IMO, so would their friendship.