is Merge going to be shutdown by the government anytime soon? I saw Party poker is offering games to NJ only? well I'm just curious how to quantify the risk, you could do regular withdrawals every month

Sums it up pretty well.

PPA/Engineer,

With the DOJ approving the funds for FTP, is this a good time to start putting some pressure for Cereus funds? What can we do?

+1

I'd hope now that the DOJ is nearly done with the FTP process they can focus on continuing their dialog with the PPA regarding the possibility of a UB/AP remission.

While using remaining funds from the PokerStars deal to make Cereus players whole is a long shot maybe they could revisit charging the owners with fraud or whatever else FTP was facing in addition to disbursing any funds from the liquidation.

+1

can somebody......anybody........

that would be fair for us to get our money back, I lost about 3,000USD on AP and never got a cent back
these sites must make millions from rake, why can't they pay out their debts?

It's a good time to start asking, but keep in mind it's very uphill effort. After all, they don't have to give anything back. Our goal as a community should be to encourage them to wish to help out.

I think Merge pulled out of New Jersey for precautionary reasons. I personally keep enough money on the site where it would take a bad swing to make me have to redeposit but not keep so much money on the site that if I lost it I would be devastated.

+1

Stop +1ing and someone call the DOJ for christ sakes

do it up

+1

FTP players are going to be paid out in February hope that means one day we can get paid out as well.

I'd like to take a minute to thank Eric Holder and all those at the DOJ for all the long, hard hours they've put in on our behalf, ensuring that we, the players, be made whole. It is nice to know that ours is a government truly concerned with the welfare of its citizens, protecting us from big, bad predators such as UB. Without your intervention, Mr. Holder, who knows where we'd be! (would probably have our money!). Anyways, my sincerest appreciation and gratitude to all of you at the DOJ- thanks for looking out and ensuring that justice be done!

When they make UB/AP players whole, ill believe your opinion about the government being concerned about us.

Rich,

(Apologies if this has been brought up before ITT.)

Has any conversation been had with the DOJ regarding the KGC's responsibility in this mess? I obviously don't know the complications that exist regarding jurisdiction and how to go about charging an entity in a Native American territory on Canadian land, but doesn't the KGC have to answer to someone?

From https://www.gamingcommission.ca/players.htm

If their primary function is to protect players haven't they failed us (Cereus players) totally and unequivocally?

Haven't been in the loop about this for a long time so.....

Is AP still operating in other countries?

LOL. I never understood how some people can be so out of touch with the poker scene. ****s been shut down for almost 3 years bro!

While I enjoy sarcasm as much as the next guy, UB actually was a big bad predator.

/nit

Well until all FTP members get paid out don't thank anybody yet, and then we gotta work on UB.

Ya, completely agreed. Just making the point that the DOJ certainly did not at all 'protect' us from them, and instead facilitated and partook in the theft.

UB getting shut down on Black Friday was a GOOD thing for poker.

So was Full Tilt getting shut down.

Both companies were STEALING from their customers, and the money you thought you had on deposit didn't really exist.

UB's was stolen in outright criminal fashion (like everything they did over the years), and Full Tilt's was stolen in the "We'll borrow from the players and pay them back at some point if we can" sort of fashion.

But without Black Friday, the damage would have been much worse.

Also, if you knew that UB was owned by the same people as the cheaters and still played there, you deserved to get ripped off. You continued to support a criminal enterprise that unapologetically stole from our community, just because there were "good games" due to the moral pros leaving.

If you were either ignorant to the whole scandal, or somehow convinced by the Prahlad/Sebok lies that there were "new owners", then I actually do feel bad for you.

I actually have a few friends who played on UB 'til the bitter end, and while we are still friends, all of them took their lumps and kept their mouths shut when Black Friday hit. Basically, their collective attitude was, "Yeah, we kinda deserved this, and we knew the risks."

With that said, I would rather see you guys get repaid from the "fund" than the DOJ keep the money (even the ones who kept playing on UB despite knowing the same owners were there), so good luck with your quest.

My understanding from Grovers documentary was that when the full extent of the cheating was exposed, the company had already been sold. Now the new owners had to pay back players who were cheated under previous owners. Instead of going to Hamilton, Pierson, and Helmuth to regain stolen funds to pay players, they decided to just use existing player funds instead. They then never went after those people to recover any of the stolen funds so there was a massive hole in player liquidity.

I'm not saying Helmuth had any knowledge of the cheating, but if I steal millions from people and pay someone with it, they are still receiving stolen funds whether they know it or not. In Helmuths case he was part-owner and founder so its much different than just paying a marketing company. It is absolutely insane that the new owners never recovered any funds from these parties. How is there not a case to be made against those who remain in the US who cheated and/or received stolen funds?

The 1st graph is not exactly accurate. There is evidence Pierson, et al continued with ownership post 2008 via shell corps (they had an inplace rev-share agreement/large iovation contract, etc). The company was in a slow stall because 2+2ers correctly perceived cheating refunds were rotten. Combined w/challenging processor expense structure, a coming crash was all but certain. It's hard to know percentages of how the remaining deposits were siphoned off between the 3 groups (UB / AP / Operating Biz) or how much was even left by late 2010 when the operating group essentially took possession of the whole bankrupt mess.

The 2nd graph is still essentially correct. At the least, one can draw a straight line to the $6.2m pulled from the operating biz + fines/expenses. Combined w/Pierson's clear attempt to initially limit refunds to ~$5m, then $15m, current players should have a compelling case that owners bled the company dry to an extent at least equal to FTP's Ponzi designation. Moreover, as you suggest, UB shareholders continued to recieve payments even after BF, monies the DoJ should have demanded frozen. The Hellmuth point is also salient. All of the original player reps were paid thru the years with stolen player funds. That they didn't know should not mean they get to keep the booty (it's perverse their reputations haven't really suffered that much).

Though the statute of limitations has expired on the original crimes, the evidence could be compelling enough to toll the case (break the limitation) and Pierson's iovation could be a lucrative US source of penalties (perhaps as much as $25m based on the recordings/treble damages = 75m). In addition, stakeholders post-BF should be able to work backwards to the same source. The problem has always been one of getting the right legal team/right plaintiffs to come together.