Is that really how it's done? If so, that's ridiculous.

Silly line. I'll take both sides for 10k, who's holding escrow?

More like:
Men's crew (-450)
Field (+600)

Some venues have dealer or floor verify end of day chip count pre bagging.

LOL

I don't expect a dime back from Borgata. The only thing foul was the skill level of play on my bust out (s). I'd suspect the actual number is closer to 1500 individual players. The rebuy lines were often longer than the buy in lines (don't ask me how I know this). I got the 'new chips' on my last rebuy, so new they had sharp enough edges that you could stand the chips on their side easily.

Yeah and Phil Ivey has a random floorman bag and tag his chips at the WSOP.

We all can't have butler service playing tournaments unfortunately.

why not have the dealer verify be standard ......1 dealer per 9/10 players at his/her table at end of day.

easy

(Number of entries - 27)(20k starting stack) + current published chip counts for top 27

yep (along w/good video surveillance, and keeping known cheaters out of poker rooms to begin with)

Then he has to watch everyone put chips in the bag oops slipped a 100k in silver in. Just not possible. And with 1c players rushing in as 1b is bagging and tagging such a rush and mad house. What happens to guys who played multiple days and made it to day 2 and take the higher stack say player had 50k for day 1a played day 1c and had 300k

Yea really. The alternative is absurd.

Worst Case Scenario?

I've been rolling around in my head a few thoughts on how this situation might play out and the possible long term consequences. This has led me to a "worse case" scenario. I'll lay it out and then you can all call me an old fart who doesn't have a clue. OK, here goes.

A few years ago I was on the AGA's (American Gaming Association's) web site where I read their annual report on the state of the brick and mortar casino industry here in the United States. It was interesting to note, in that report, that only 11 percent of the gaming industry's profits came from the poker room. (Unsurprisingly, the bulk of the profits - around 55 percent - came from slot machines. The remaining 34 percent came from other table games, food & drink, entertainment and so forth.) Prior to Chris Moneymaker's big win back in 2003 and the beginning of the "Poker Boom," many casinos around the country were seriously considering closing their card rooms and using the freed up floor space for more slot machines. (Dealers over in Tunica have told me "the bean counters" for one of the top brick & mortar operators tried three times to persuade top management to shut the poker room down prior to 2002 - and they nearly succeeded.) The point here is that from the perspective of top management of these joints, poker is probably their least desirable offering. (I recall playing poker once over in Tunica with a man who I knew was married. So I ask him: "Where's your wife?" and he says "Oh, she's downstairs playing the slots." Another gentleman at the table immediately piped up and said: "That's the only reason they keep the poker room open for us guys ... they're hoping our wives are downstairs playing the slots." Everybody laughed.)

So now we have this imbroglio at Borgata. Depending on how this plays out, Borgata could wind up being hurt bad by this - especially if one of the final 27 sues and wins a HUGE jury award - like say something on the order of a $10 million punitive damages award. (If this were to actually get in front of a jury, it's not hard imagining a really good lawyer convincing a majority of jurors - in a civil case - that they could just as easily have been the person who got screwed by the big rich casino.) If more than one of the 27 successfully sue for damages, who knows how high the Borgata's liability could run? Add on top of this the cost of any enforcement actions likely to be forthcoming from the New Jersey GCB. If you're an owner or shareholder of the Borgata, what you're suddenly looking at here is a lot of uncertainty ...

Given these possibilities (and all the attendant uncertainty) the boardroom conversation among all these B&M casino operators might run something like this: "Poker is no longer worth messing with. There's too much hassle and risk - and not enough profit to make it worthwhile. Let's just shut it down and say to hell with it. We're not making much money off of poker anyway, so why bother? Let's just wash our hands clean and be done with it." That would be the worst case scenario here in the United States - no internet poker and no B&M poker either.

That's what "Men the Master" and all these other cheats would have accomplished. They (and not Sheldon Adelson) would effectively kill poker in the United States. I'm not stating categorically that this is the likely outcome - I'm just pointing out that if the Borgata winds up taking a major bath on this, it could trigger a sobering reassessment among all the operators as to whether poker is worth the cost (and the risk) from a profit/loss perspective.

Broken Back Alan of Huntsville

Yeah I left borgata I'm skipping the rest of the series to go to Maryland live seems like a better bet most of their tournaments are decent size prize pools Sunday seems good. Good surveillance!

lol

I am saying the player should not bag. The dealer should. Of course player has counted his chips. Then dealer counts and bags. (verifies w/player the amt).

Then as Allen said, total chip amounts verified at the end/beginning of each days play.

If you want security, expect to do a little work.....

Right or at the very least Borgata for example, would significantly reduce their tournament schedule going forward.

Not even so much as an apology from Tab??? I can understand not making an official statement, but a simple apology for what has transpired might go a long way with some people... But what do you expect from someone who declared that they will no longer respond in their venue's dedicated forums because there was too much criticism. Unless you are kissing his ass or you are Will The Thrill he doesn't give you the time of day.

No way Borgata gets 'hurt bad' by this. Assume on the low side only 1500 unique players for tournament 1. Borgata may not have made much if anything on the tournament itself but when you throw in the food, rooms, live cash games, degen pit guys, slot players and that wonderful $5 garage exit fee...the house is in the black.

They can run crappy tournaments, fail miserably and still do well because they have one of the largest population of poker players in the country within a few hours drive of their venue.

has there really been no precedent? This cannot be the first time this has ever happened in poker history

I think for tournament play

I played in this tourney and yes borgata will have to issue refunds out. They should be held liable as they hired dealers that didn't even know what ante's were little own what the chips look like.One dealer couldn't even shuffle the cards and the middle of the deck was sticking out so seats 1234 could see what the was showing in the middle of the deck so ******ed. I got so frustrated correcting the dealer I through my chips in and bought in to go to another table to find the same stuff with the other dealers. CRAZY!!! they would just throw it together so this would happen. It is their responsibility to make sure we are playing in a safe and fair tourney. Sorry if they don't issue refunds there will be more legal fees than they could imagine.

In before it turns out Borgata started with one 5 k tournament chip back in the day, never produced new ones, and counted on scammers to bring the chips to the table.

That would have driven me insane. I heard from players they were literally only getting 5 hands dealt per 30 minutes. That is ridiculous.

THIS!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Some levels, especially later in the day like 800/1600, 1k/2k, 1500/3000 and 2k/4k (end of day 1) we only got one orbit in per level. maybe 14 hands at most.