I know on stars i was able to convert my tourney tickets/t$/fpps into cash before i received my locked up balance from them. They handled it how it should of been handled. Absolutely no reason that D.O.J. can't do the same, unless ofc they want to steal this value from the players.

Or perhaps maybe stars will let us exchange our points and stuff into cash before D.O.J. gets their hands on them. I'm sorry, but there was cash value to these things and there is no reason why players shouldn't be reimbursed for them.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-cash-1233694/

I think people will get paid balances simply because stars was able to refund player balances and rest of worls players are getting paid balances. Think of how bad the doj will look if they dont refund people in full

Shame on the u.s and their archaic gaming laws..... Shame on u all.!

the greedy govt needs to give the money back asap its been forever already.

Does anyone know, or should I say have an educated guess, as to when the DOJ plans to distribute refunds? I'm thinking that they are currently trying to figure out how to process claims, what type of proof they will require, and whatever else they may throw into an application for compensation. But really, how long should this take to do? I know the government usually operates at a snails pace, but this shouldnt take too long, or should it?

Does anyone else think like I do that we will receive our money back BEFORE the year is over simply so that it can be treated as taxable for the 2012 year?

Well you didn't say anything about it being a bad argument, you simply defined what fraud is.
Whether they were dealing hands in an illegal way or allowing illegal payments to be processed may not matter - they may simply want everyone to be in the same position they were had FTP not processed any illegal payments - thus deposits would be refunded (until the money that PS paid is gone or some date they define).
As I've said many times I do not believe they will do it and even though I have no money or points or anything in FTP I hope they do refund balances because it is fair. Problem is that it is absolutely a point of view the DOJ could take. That's all I'm trying to say.

no enlighten us o great 1.

Election

Pretty happy as I had $0.14 in my FTP account.

How did he write so many words without addressing the only question that is relevant to getting players repaid fairly: unlawful debt?

Repeating SDNY's own words doesn't do anything to bolster the players chances of getting paid, they (AFLMS) know this already, this was our (poker players) chance to make an argument that SDNY can not make while they still intend to prosecute poker site operators doing business in NY.

The question that should have been addressed is whether AFLMS can legally honor business transactions which SDNY has labeled as illegal, and a strong argument citing the re:Mastercard (unlawful debt) case can and should have been made that they can.

Under re:Mastercard, poker sites are only in the business of selling gambling chips in the US, which after the UIGEA became illegal if commercial poker violates State law, but the players themselves should be viewed to have gotten what they paid for in the form of those chips, and only those who still have chips in their accounts should be viewed as victims of FTP's fraud.

This crap about it being ok for AFLMS to return balances because they won't be violating the UIGEA is almost laughable, as if AFLMS might have been worried about violating the UIGEA?

If they decide to pay out only deposits it will be because no one reminded them that FTP was a licensed Alderney based card room, specifically legal in it's jurisdiction, and because poker unlike house banked online gambling must always be played at the table where it is raked.

Therefore no betting took place in NY or any other US State, an argument that SDNY can't make for us, but the PPA could have and I believe should have, so whether remission is paid out fairly or not, this letter is a failure.

How do you even write a letter addressing the lawful status of online poker business and fail to cite the one case that actually addresses that question (re:Mastercard) and does so in a way that favors our (poker players) position?

They are not concerned with the well-being of Americans out of the goodness of their heart. They are concerned because they want a poker customer base who is happy and satisfied with the conclusion, so that they can redeposit that money on the future US sites run by their buddies, the casino lobby.

This past 16 months has been a process to bulldoze the path for those companies to come in and set up shop with no offshore, quasi-untaxable businesses available in the US to provide more attractive competition. It would be counterproductive for the DOJ to then **** around and piss off the customer base by dicking them over for their money, trying to pocket a few extra million dollars.

A better way to put it is this: it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility for the government to screw people, so it's good to be wary. But in this case, the government has a vested self-interest in paying off the players in full and not having an angry customer base for future (taxable) poker sites, so they have a common goal as the players in this instance.

There's no incentive behind all these wacky conspiracy theories that the DOJ is going to pocket our money.

I had a dream last night that I received a large settlement check. My sister had cause to believe that the amount was incorrect and because of that the amount of taxes owed would also be incorrect.

I was very calm and said that the final amount will be correct and as far as taxes, no worries as a have an excellent accountant.

another monday with no news. WTF is the DOJ doing? this is getting beyond frustrating

I think the reasoning is logical but looking at it from the DOJ's point of view - refunding deposits means more Joe Schmo's have money to put in poker sites, while the poker players (who are going to play regardless) are pissed because they got screwed. They now have more money for the recreational player to put back into the site and even though the poker players (2P2 community) are pissed, they aren't going to stop playing poker.

It essentially spreads the same amount of capital over a larger player base meaning more rake and tax being paid...

I don't think they are scheming for ways to pocket money but I could be horribly wrong with everything I've ever said...

Cliffs? Is the consensus that they will pay deposits or balances?

Patience, it's only been two weeks and they just got the money from Stars. If we haven't heard anything by the end of August then you can be frustrated.

Yes. One or the other is the consensus. Of course, it doesn't make a difference what our consensus is. That won't determine what the DOJ does.

I understand that. Just trying to keep up w/ it all and stay semi-informed. I truly hope those that lost the most don't get screwed. As a fishy donk, I would love my deposits back, but I lost them fair and square

GMAFB.

Players in the U.S. are jonesing so hard for a legal game that they could open one tomorrow, run by Dutch Boyd and Russ Hamilton, with a $6/hand rake, 4 out of 9 seats pre-filled with site-run bots, and people would still line up to send in money.

no,we would just continue to play on rev., merge, ACR, or bovada.

I called the AFMLS direct line and they handed it off to the SDNY so you can save time by calling SDNY direct at (212) 637 2200 if you want.

The SDNY's website has a status page they seem to updating for player petition remission tho

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/vw_c...okerstars.html

My thoughts, and I think the strong opinion of many, is that balances will be paid (maybe not 100%, but most). Everything is purely speculation spurred from a Forbes article probably written on more pure speculation to spur hits to their website and draw attention to their publication.


There are arguments both ways, but the simple, fair process would be balances.

Is there a time frame that DOJ would make an announcement as to whether they are paying the Balance or the Deposit?

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...ull-tilt-poker