I'm surprised (sort of) that people keep reading this to mean players will have to submit financial transaction records, etc. It pretty clearly means (IMO) that they're talking about the cashout administrator looking at FT's transaction records that will be handed over to them for the process. And yes, I know that just means everyone's going to speculate on that meaning "omg they're probably going to do detailed financial records for everyone for the IRS omgomgomgomg", but more than likely they mean mostly for phantom deposits and limbo withdrawal type issues that they will need to be able to have the faculty to deal with.

I agree with you Blizz... i think that the hardest parts of all of this are over... and now its just weeding out a few things before we get our money. I do really believe we will have it within 120 days....

Of course not. The DoJ is a large, complex organization consiting of independent parts, each of which may have their own way of seeing things. The people who put together the agreement with Stars (SDNY) are not the people who will be administering the remission payments (AFMLS). There are many signs that the SDNY had in mind that US players would get remission based on their account balances, but no actual undertaking from SDNY to this effect. It would have been improper for the AFMLS to get involved with designing the remission scheme during the negotiation process. Now that the deal has been signed, the SDNY will be able to provide advice to the AFMLS. However, the AFMLS will make the determination. There are reports from months ago that concerns were circulating in Washington about whether refunding player balances was appropriate. IDK if the senior people in AFMLS shared those concerns, or will be influenced by such concerns held by others. On the surface though, the argument to base remission on deposits seems to me more obvious than one based on balances. But since it is not obvious to me why US players are being treated as crime victims while ROW players are not, I doubt what seems obvious to me will have much bearing on the outcome.

Right now, the only thing that can be put to bed is the silly notion that the full amount of deposits will be refunded. There isn't enough money available for that. There remains a possibility that remission will be based on balances as at a pre-BF date and net deposits after that date, or just on net deposits, as opposed to being based on balances on Jun 29. or on BF.

It would be rather unusual for a claim to effectively consist of nothing more than "Please give me whatever it is you think I'm supposed to get from you", plus some ID.

Why would they do that? Why wouldnt they just give us our balance at the time and date the site got seized? If they give us anything less than what is in our CURRENT account, minus PD.... I think that would be a joke. ROW players are getting their balance in full, granted it wasnt "illegal" for them to play but still.... come on

I would think they would use the June 29 balance.

I got rakeback payments and take 2 promo monies after 4/15.

Not to mention many players could still play for 2-3 days after 4/15 as long as they did not log out.

If the fish go to the new U.S. website, that's where the HUD-botters will go.

I thought that at first two - but re-reading it they do split it into two separate things:


1: "financial transaction records, from claimants"
2: "information contained in user account records provided in database and other format by Full Tilt Poker"


It seems like the latter is what you're describing, and #1 would be something provided by us (the players) based on the 'from claimants' part.



What else do you think we are going to be expected to provide? I can bet that 90%+ of account holders don't have anything but a general idea what is in their account, and we can't login to look so many won't be able to provide that. I highly doubt many people keep bank statements/financial records like they should and don't see why (if DOJ is paying balances) that would be relevant to the processor.


The most efficient way to do it would be almost exactly that...name, address, proof of identity, username, estimated balance (maybe). Then it's up to whoever is handling it to review the account, deduct anything as needed and pay the difference.


So yea, if balances are going to be paid it might turn into that - put in a claim with your proof of identity and username and you get paid whatever they pay you...

I disagree with Blizzuff. I think it means they would be evaluating financial records received from claimants.

If I were to speculate, I'd guess the only financial transaction records the claims administrator would receive and evaluate from claimants would be records that help to determine whether the balance as of x date is correct.

For example: whether in limbo funds were received/ or to prove that certain checks bounced, phantom deposits possibly, too, etc. (Though it's hard to see why or how FTP would not have accomplish this in the past year, but it's hard to be shocked by anything old FTP did anymore)

Once we receive access to our accounts or a statement of our account balance from new FTP, if you are contesting the amount or claiming it should be different, the claims processor would need to determine what the correct balance is. Your financial records could help with that.

That's all I can think of at least. Probably best not to think too much into it or it will get turned into something it probably isn't.

I have no idea how anal they are going to be about this. It could range from as little as name, address, SSN, and FTP account name to all of the above plus requiring statement of a specific amount, backed up by written transaction records of all deposits and a printout of a screen capture of an FTP cashier page and a notarized affidavit that they are not affiliated by employment, contract or ownershp with FTP.

As I said, a claim that did not state an amount would be unusual. That doesn't mean it could not happen.

I agree that many players don't know exactly how much their balance was. Some don't even remember their password. What remains to be seen is how helpful the DoJ is going to be towards players who don't have all the information that could reasonably be required.

The DoJ is going to have a complete copy of FTP's records for US players. Perhaps they will implement an online access portal that will allow US players to log onto a DoJ purpose-built website, using their FTP login information and/or real life ID, and view their account balance for the purpose of making a claim. It seems unlikely the new FTP site is going to be a formal part of any such process, given the lack of mention of this in the Settlement.

Perhaps. I kinda doubt that efficiency is the DoJ's only concern here.

"obtain financial transaction records from claimants" is scaring the sh*t out of me.

I wish they could just tier the cashouts where people over $1K or whatever could be cashed out immediately and they can deal with all the $30 cashouts later.

Yeah, you guys are right. Shoot.

I agree with everything you said...and unfortunately you're probably right that making it as easy as possible is absolutely not going to be priority number one...

Everyone has got to realize, that 50 different people are going to look at this situation 50 different ways. Everything that we are guessing right now, is just that a guess. This just like pre settlement days, its fun read how people analyze things, but until we get official word.... we are all in the dark.

Why??? Are people that have more than $1000 dollars better than people that don't???? I'm sure it will be on a 'first come first in line'.

Well.... yeah.... there will be more than 1.3 million people from the US cashing out funds.... so I figured there wont be 1.3 million people working for the 3rd party funds processor, isnt that just kind of common knowledge?

So about your avatar.....

I'll be happy to transfer my avatar to you for free, if you want. There is no reason to process people who have a lot of money on line first than people who don't. So, if I wait 60 days to finally submit my remmitance forum I should go to the head of the line before all the people who have lessor claims???? I mean, that would be fine by me since I have more than 1000 but I am willing to wait my turn. Maybe I am off base here since I don't need my 20,000 + to live but I would think that first come first in line will be the norm.
Also, why do you think that the DOJ is going to pay the processing company a ton of money?? I figure that is what the administration fee will be for, which comes out of our money, not the DOJ's.

PS--How are the poker rooms at Sandia/Hardrock????

Yes.

If there were 5 billion people who had 1 penny on there and 1 person with 5 million. Would you still say they need to wait? They are losing large sums of cash each month where that money could be working for them.

Looks like remission instructions are not coming for a while: http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-and-re...-player-funds/

Everything is here say as of now....

I do think that this will be cleared up by october... or by elections. I think that they doj wants to get this over asap.

cleared up as in paid or cleared up as in we will have instructions for remission payments?

i think that we will have our "paper work" in and we will be in the process of getting our money back, but yet again.... I HAVE NOOOOOO inside sources. just guessing, but i just dont think that this process will be a drag like most people are thinking. Yes PF is a reliable site, but i think that they are just guessing as well.

I'm currently working as an analyst for the BP claims process, and while that settlement is obviously many multiples larger and different in scope, the documentation requirements are significantly more than just your ID and amount you're claiming. I'm personally significantly more familiar with the process for business claimants, but just glancing over the documentation requirements for individual claims, the settlement requires:

-ID (proof of age/id)
-License (if applicable)
-Bonus/Commission documentation
-W9
-1040/W2/1099s

And a number of other documents that are to give a cost to job search/training/etc costs and alternate income (since the claim is for lost earnings). These docs shouldn't apply. And I would imagine the actual data from FTP will replace the requirement for earnings documentation and pay period data. I would think it'd be weird for the disbursement of FTP funds to require the same amount of documentation as the BP process, but it certainly seems at least plausible to me that the process could be a bit of an inconvenience.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they required taxes to be submitted to at least see if gambling income has ever been reported. It also seems very possible to request bank statements for accounts with deposits in x-y timeframe to account for phantom deposits. And it would seem most likely that some dollar threshold would be set for these documents. Requesting info for accounts with $100 or whatever in them (or accounts that deposited a total of $50, etc) would be a waste of time, and therefore money.

But since this is such a smaller case, maybe itll be super simple and all we do need to do is send in ID. Hopefully we'll know soon.