Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop 2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop

07-03-2014 , 08:37 AM
Poker is very similar to financial trading in the sense that lots of people try but few are successful and even fewer by a big margin. Both are really pyramid schemes where the worse players/traders give money to the better ones by making -EV decisions and playing/trading with no edge. The brokers/casinos make money in transaction fee/rake, the better players/traders make money subject to variance but the majority lose. Most lose a bit, some addicts lose a lot.

Trading is by far a more uneven playing field due to the money involved with Goldman Sachs and co employing an army of maths and statistical geniuses to gain a edge even over pension funds and other institutional investors let alone Joe Bloggs trying to day trade.

What he is saying in my opinion is he doesn't mind playing pros and billionaire business men and taking their money because they can afford it and they know the risk. What he is saying is he doesn't want to become a poker celeb and attract new uninformed people to lose their money. He has my respect in his stance. The people hating on him are doing so because they want more fish to run over and think this 'bad for poker' stance reduces the chance of that. Maybe that says more about you than him.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgr33n13
I really don't owe anyone an explanation but Ill give one...

First off, I don't owe poker a single thing. I've been fortunate enough to benefit financially from this game, but I have played it long enough to see the ugly side of this world. It is not a game where the pros are always happy and living a fulfilling life. To have a job where you are at the mercy of variance can be insanely stressful and can lead to a lot of unhealthy habits. I would never in a million years recommend for someone to try and make it as a poker pro.

It is also not a game where the amateurs are always happy to be losing their money for the sake of entertainment. The losers lose way more money at this game then winners are winning. A lot of this is money they cant afford to lose. This is fine of course because if someone is dumb enough to gamble with money they cant afford to lose, that's their problem. Im not really buying that though. In a perfect world, markets are based on informed consumers making rational transactions. In reality sadly that's not the case, markets are based on advertising trying to play on peoples impulses and targeting their weaknesses in order for them to make irrational decisions. I get it if someone wants to go and play poker on their own free will, but I don't agree with gambling being advertised just like I don't agree with cigarettes and alcohol being advertised.

It bothers me that people care so much about poker's well being. As poker is a game that has such a net negative effect on the people playing it. Both financially and emotionally.

As for promoting myself, I feel that individual achievements should rarely be celebrated. I am not going to take part in it for others and I wouldn't want it for myself. If you wonder why our society is so infatuated by individuals and their success, and being a baller, it is not that way for no reason. It is their because it serves a clear purpose. If you get people to look up to someone and adhere to the "gain wealth, forget all but self" motto, then you can get them to ignore the social contract which is very good for power systems. Also it serves as a means of distraction to get people to not pay attention to the things that do matter.

These are just my personal views. And yes, I realize I am conflicted. I capitalize off this game that targets peoples weaknesses. I do enjoy it, I love the strategy part of it, but I do see it as a very dark game.

Happy to read any ones opinions that could convince me otherwise of my views.
u keep eating fish but u are still crying for them

The crocodile tears syndrome
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgr33n13
I really don't owe anyone an explanation but Ill give one...

First off, I don't owe poker a single thing. I've been fortunate enough to benefit financially from this game, but I have played it long enough to see the ugly side of this world. It is not a game where the pros are always happy and living a fulfilling life. To have a job where you are at the mercy of variance can be insanely stressful and can lead to a lot of unhealthy habits. I would never in a million years recommend for someone to try and make it as a poker pro.

It is also not a game where the amateurs are always happy to be losing their money for the sake of entertainment. The losers lose way more money at this game then winners are winning. A lot of this is money they cant afford to lose. This is fine of course because if someone is dumb enough to gamble with money they cant afford to lose, that's their problem. Im not really buying that though. In a perfect world, markets are based on informed consumers making rational transactions. In reality sadly that's not the case, markets are based on advertising trying to play on peoples impulses and targeting their weaknesses in order for them to make irrational decisions. I get it if someone wants to go and play poker on their own free will, but I don't agree with gambling being advertised just like I don't agree with cigarettes and alcohol being advertised.

It bothers me that people care so much about poker's well being. As poker is a game that has such a net negative effect on the people playing it. Both financially and emotionally.

As for promoting myself, I feel that individual achievements should rarely be celebrated. I am not going to take part in it for others and I wouldn't want it for myself. If you wonder why our society is so infatuated by individuals and their success, and being a baller, it is not that way for no reason. It is their because it serves a clear purpose. If you get people to look up to someone and adhere to the "gain wealth, forget all but self" motto, then you can get them to ignore the social contract which is very good for power systems. Also it serves as a means of distraction to get people to not pay attention to the things that do matter.

These are just my personal views. And yes, I realize I am conflicted. I capitalize off this game that targets peoples weaknesses. I do enjoy it, I love the strategy part of it, but I do see it as a very dark game.

Happy to read any ones opinions that could convince me otherwise of my views.
Hi Sheldon Adelson
Not eneough money from One Drop, so you decide to take some more from Adelson to ad poker?

Dont you rememer times, when you cheated a ton of guys, even ur coach? Scum before, scum now...
Mrgreen confirmed multiaccounting
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 08:55 AM
coleman wins postofthedecade too imo
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:05 AM
*Coalman
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowskys

Lack of humility after winning $15m is never going to go down well.
If the reports of Colman having less than 10% of himself are true, maybe his investors should've given the speeches instead.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth
Hi Everyone:

I'm getting to this thread a little late, but here's my opinion anyway.

First off, I think that Dan Colman, whether you agree or disagree, should be commended for giving an honest answer. It's actually quite refreshing.

Second, I think some of the issues he raises are legitimate. Are the live ones losing at too fast a rate? Are many of poker's customers way too unhappy? Are the top pros not the high quality people they make themselves out to be? And is poker a dark game.

I don't know Colman's background. Specifically, is he just a tournament player or does he also play cash games? But I suspect his complaints apply more to tournaments than to cash games partly because the buy-ins are sometimes too high for many players to afford, and thus they get help in paying these fees and end up indebted to others, and partly because the hours that some tournaments require are just brutal.

But I definitely agree that there are some things relative to poker that need fixing, and Colman has touched upon some of them. He may be more negative than most of us would like, but there is stuff in his post that should be discussed and debated.

Best wishes,
Mason
On no sleep but okay I'll try to answer. He mainly players hu hyper turbos online, he also plays hu turbo sngs, and occasionally plays hu cash online. He hasn't played too many live tournaments, and has already become one of the biggest money winners all time.

People have the right to spend their money however they choose. If someone who's a losing player but thinks they can win, is it really that much different than a baseball player who thinks he will be able to make the minors or pros but he can't. Is it that much different than someone who goes broke trying to start a business but fails. Or someone who invests in the stock market and goes broke. Is it really that much different than someone who gets married and that marriage ends in divorce. This happens in everything people do.

People who play poker do so because they choose to. Bottom line. There a lot of worse things people can choose to do. Any player has a chance to win in poker, but there are many things someone can do where that same person has no chance to get any return at all or less of a chance.

There are so many different reasons why people play poker, and not everyone is in it for the money. The businessman who played the One Drop are not all in it for the money. They enjoy the competition, they want to win, but they also want some publicity, and the achievement. The social atmosphere, the fun the comes with it and the memories, as well as bragging rights.

That is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it, and I'm open to hearing a better one.

Last edited by SonOfDonk; 07-03-2014 at 09:26 AM.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:23 AM
mrgreen for **** president
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfDonk
On no sleep but okay I'll try to answer. He mainly players hu hyper turbos online, he also plays hu turbo sngs, and occasionally plays hu cash online. He hasn't played too many live tournaments, and has already become one of the biggest money winners all time.

People have the right to spend their money however they choose. If someone who's a losing player but thinks they can win, is it really that much different than a baseball player who thinks he will be able to make the minors or pros but he can't. Is it that much different than someone who goes broke trying to start a business but fails. Or someone who invests in the stock market and goes broke. Is it really that much different than someone who gets married and that marriage ends in divorce. This happens in everything people do.

People who play poker do so because they choose to. Bottom line. There a lot of worse things people can choose to do. Any player has a chance to win in poker, but there are many things someone can do where that same person has no chance to get any return at all or less of a chance.

There are so many different reasons why people play poker, and not everyone is in it for the money. The businessman who played the One Drop are not all in it for the money. They enjoy the competition, they want to win, but they also want some publicity, and the achievement. The social atmosphere, the fun the comes with it and the memories, as well as bragging rights.

That is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it, and I'm open to hearing a better one.
People choose from the choices that are available to them. These choices are based on information - often incomplete information. Pretty simple really - directing "fish" (and we are all fish in some respects in this life) into an activity where they will be fish again is the morally reprehensible part of it all. Yes, this is capitalism where we are living right now but props to Colman for being able to understand two apparently (to some or maybe many) mutually exclusive concepts.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:35 AM
Finals thoughts, tired of hearing people say "poker has no value in society". That is garbage. Poker has a lot of value to me, watching and playing it. I'm a poker fan, just like someone is a sports fan. Are you going to tell a sports fan, spending so much time rooting for their favorite team has no value to them?

There are more people who want jobs then there are jobs available. Not everyone can work a normal job because there are not enough jobs.
There are people who are unemployed who want to be working but can't find work for extended amounts of time and some who won't be hired at all for various reasons. What about someone who has no work experience. What about someone who doesn't have a college degree. How easy can these people find work? People who play poker spend money everywhere, the money is spent, society is benefiting. Someone is being helped every time someone loses.

Final point. Poker creates more jobs. Poker dealers. Enough said.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:36 AM
reading rich ryans news article was about the poker journalistic equivalent of watching foxnews or msnbc...

a clearly biased ranting opinion with token balance and a sprinkle of selected facts.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgr33n13
I really don't owe anyone an explanation but Ill give one...

First off, I don't owe poker a single thing. I've been fortunate enough to benefit financially from this game, but I have played it long enough to see the ugly side of this world. It is not a game where the pros are always happy and living a fulfilling life. To have a job where you are at the mercy of variance can be insanely stressful and can lead to a lot of unhealthy habits. I would never in a million years recommend for someone to try and make it as a poker pro.

It is also not a game where the amateurs are always happy to be losing their money for the sake of entertainment. The losers lose way more money at this game then winners are winning. A lot of this is money they cant afford to lose. This is fine of course because if someone is dumb enough to gamble with money they cant afford to lose, that's their problem. Im not really buying that though. In a perfect world, markets are based on informed consumers making rational transactions. In reality sadly that's not the case, markets are based on advertising trying to play on peoples impulses and targeting their weaknesses in order for them to make irrational decisions. I get it if someone wants to go and play poker on their own free will, but I don't agree with gambling being advertised just like I don't agree with cigarettes and alcohol being advertised.

It bothers me that people care so much about poker's well being. As poker is a game that has such a net negative effect on the people playing it. Both financially and emotionally.

As for promoting myself, I feel that individual achievements should rarely be celebrated. I am not going to take part in it for others and I wouldn't want it for myself. If you wonder why our society is so infatuated by individuals and their success, and being a baller, it is not that way for no reason. It is their because it serves a clear purpose. If you get people to look up to someone and adhere to the "gain wealth, forget all but self" motto, then you can get them to ignore the social contract which is very good for power systems. Also it serves as a means of distraction to get people to not pay attention to the things that do matter.

These are just my personal views. And yes, I realize I am conflicted. I capitalize off this game that targets peoples weaknesses. I do enjoy it, I love the strategy part of it, but I do see it as a very dark game.

Happy to read any ones opinions that could convince me otherwise of my views.

So, if you dont like the dark site of the game, now u have the opportunity to make a little part of it happier, and donate max. 1 Mio $ at my skrill-Account,
so that I am able to found a company.
Private message inside

but I hope, u dont misunderstand this, I respect your point of view,
but it would be more interesting if u did say your written words into a camera
congrats fo the 1st place.
ps. was it hard ? how is it to play with chips with a worth of 1mio $ ?
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipes
He just won the One Drop. The statement sounds like he was coming from a 20 hour session of 4/8 O8 at the Orleans
haha
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerdSuperfly
he is the coleman, to be exactly ...
Accually it's not exactly exactly. Accually it's "to be exact"
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfDonk
Finals thoughts, tired of hearing people say "poker has no value in society". That is garbage. Poker has a lot of value to me, watching and playing it. I'm a poker fan, just like someone is a sports fan. Are you going to tell a sports fan, spending so much time rooting for their favorite team has no value to them?

There are more people who want jobs then there are jobs available. Not everyone can work a normal job because there are not enough jobs.
There are people who are unemployed who want to be working but can't find work for extended amounts of time and some who won't be hired at all for various reasons. What about someone who has no work experience. What about someone who doesn't have a college degree. How easy can these people find work? People who play poker spend money everywhere, the money is spent, society is benefiting. Someone is being helped every time someone loses.

Final point. Poker creates more jobs. Poker dealers. Enough said.
I will be waiting to hear an intelligent response to this. I should have posted this earlier. Any of the haters out there, I'm giving you an advantage because I'm on literally no sleep, it is 6:50am here and I have not slept.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:05 AM
^ your posts are terrible. go to bed. try again 2moro
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrawNone
^ your posts are terrible. go to bed. try again 2moro
Everything he has posted has been awful...
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:14 AM
I think the guy is smart to use this platform that he may never have again to worn people about the downside of the game. Most winners would only be looking at the sponsorship and free buy ins to tournaments side.

It also shows that some players like coleman still have a connection with the real world and no just the poker world. I here people in here say and do the most absurd things in the poker community. Making 7fig prop bets without lawyers, contracts, and legal escrows. Making sports bets on credit without lawyers, contracts, or legal escrows. Loaning 6 and 7 figures without lawyers, contracts, or legal escrows. And then they wonder how they got scammed/freerolled.

In the poker community we have the good: broke players becoming millionaires, fictionally ******ed guys finding success in poker when they could get a job as a walmart greater etc.

But we have also seen the bad, Fulltilt scamming millions, Chino Reem scamming millions, Lindgren scamming millions, Negreanu defending his friend Lindgred's scamming millions, durrrr challenge scam for millions, Lock Poker scam, players who openly sell pieces of their action and know if they bink they will not pay back.

He saw all the bad the poker community and decided he didnt want to be apart of it or at least have his good name attached to it.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:15 AM
Do people think that poker gained more popularity or was in a better place when Antonio won the One Drop two years ago? IMO, nothing changed. Casual fans like watching people put up $1M to play a tourney but it doesn't have any affect on them. If am amateur won the One Drop that also wouldn't change poker. People aren't going to start playing the game or taking it seriously as an amateur because they watch One Drop. Everything is being overblown and it's pretty pathetic.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beauvanlaanen
Everything he has posted has been awful...
Fallacy. Maybe you are unable to validly debate against my point, so you result to attacking the person, ad hominem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrawNone
^ your posts are terrible. go to bed. try again 2moro
I will. Fallacy. So you don't have a response to argue how poker has no value to society then? Easy win. Off to get some rest it is.

Last edited by SonOfDonk; 07-03-2014 at 10:27 AM.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgr33n13
I really don't owe anyone an explanation but Ill give one...

First off, I don't owe poker a single thing. I've been fortunate enough to benefit financially from this game, but I have played it long enough to see the ugly side of this world. It is not a game where the pros are always happy and living a fulfilling life. To have a job where you are at the mercy of variance can be insanely stressful and can lead to a lot of unhealthy habits. I would never in a million years recommend for someone to try and make it as a poker pro.

It is also not a game where the amateurs are always happy to be losing their money for the sake of entertainment. The losers lose way more money at this game then winners are winning. A lot of this is money they cant afford to lose. This is fine of course because if someone is dumb enough to gamble with money they cant afford to lose, that's their problem. Im not really buying that though. In a perfect world, markets are based on informed consumers making rational transactions. In reality sadly that's not the case, markets are based on advertising trying to play on peoples impulses and targeting their weaknesses in order for them to make irrational decisions. I get it if someone wants to go and play poker on their own free will, but I don't agree with gambling being advertised just like I don't agree with cigarettes and alcohol being advertised.

It bothers me that people care so much about poker's well being. As poker is a game that has such a net negative effect on the people playing it. Both financially and emotionally.

As for promoting myself, I feel that individual achievements should rarely be celebrated. I am not going to take part in it for others and I wouldn't want it for myself. If you wonder why our society is so infatuated by individuals and their success, and being a baller, it is not that way for no reason. It is their because it serves a clear purpose. If you get people to look up to someone and adhere to the "gain wealth, forget all but self" motto, then you can get them to ignore the social contract which is very good for power systems. Also it serves as a means of distraction to get people to not pay attention to the things that do matter.

These are just my personal views. And yes, I realize I am conflicted. I capitalize off this game that targets peoples weaknesses. I do enjoy it, I love the strategy part of it, but I do see it as a very dark game.

Happy to read any ones opinions that could convince me otherwise of my views.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambl...-for-one-drop/

FWIW there is some discussion about your comments on WOV. I know I would love to hear more detail about the darker sides of AP gambling if you are interested to share.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfDonk
Finals thoughts, tired of hearing people say "poker has no value in society". That is garbage. Poker has a lot of value to me, watching and playing it. I'm a poker fan, just like someone is a sports fan. Are you going to tell a sports fan, spending so much time rooting for their favorite team has no value to them?

There are more people who want jobs then there are jobs available. Not everyone can work a normal job because there are not enough jobs.
There are people who are unemployed who want to be working but can't find work for extended amounts of time and some who won't be hired at all for various reasons. What about someone who has no work experience. What about someone who doesn't have a college degree. How easy can these people find work? People who play poker spend money everywhere, the money is spent, society is benefiting. Someone is being helped every time someone loses.

Final point. Poker creates more jobs. Poker dealers. Enough said.
You dont understand what "no value on society means". Poker players do not provide any service to society at all. You cannot argue that.

I'm not saying everyone has to provide something. That's just how it is, poker players dont provide or produce anything. There are people who feel like, apart from money, that poker isn't giving them anything. That's probably because poker is taking money from people who are worse than you, so for you to live a comfortable life someone (or a group of people) need to lose money. To enjoy life on other peoples expense probably doesnt feel too fulfilling.

I'm not blaming anyone who makes a comfortable living playing poker. Good for them. But for their own sake I hope they find something meaningful in life to do besides poker (unless if poker gives you self worth and makes your life fulfilling and meaningful. But I believe this is not the case too often.) Poker is survival of the fittest kinda thing. But a lot of areas in life these days are.

understanding what poker ultimately is and still playing it doesnt make anyone a bad person or a hypocrite. I respect Colman's view and I completely understand him not wanting to promote poker. By doing so he would be part of the marketing machinery which tries to bring more people to poker. Him not wanting to do this is understandable even if he plays poker, I see no contradiction in this.

If he can win money from people who already play, but doesnt want to promote poker to some college kids who would likely lose their hard earned money flipping burgers is completely understandable.
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgr33n13
I really don't owe anyone an explanation but Ill give one...

First off, I don't owe poker a single thing. I've been fortunate enough to benefit financially from this game, but I have played it long enough to see the ugly side of this world. It is not a game where the pros are always happy and living a fulfilling life. To have a job where you are at the mercy of variance can be insanely stressful and can lead to a lot of unhealthy habits. I would never in a million years recommend for someone to try and make it as a poker pro.

It is also not a game where the amateurs are always happy to be losing their money for the sake of entertainment. The losers lose way more money at this game then winners are winning. A lot of this is money they cant afford to lose. This is fine of course because if someone is dumb enough to gamble with money they cant afford to lose, that's their problem. Im not really buying that though. In a perfect world, markets are based on informed consumers making rational transactions. In reality sadly that's not the case, markets are based on advertising trying to play on peoples impulses and targeting their weaknesses in order for them to make irrational decisions. I get it if someone wants to go and play poker on their own free will, but I don't agree with gambling being advertised just like I don't agree with cigarettes and alcohol being advertised.

It bothers me that people care so much about poker's well being. As poker is a game that has such a net negative effect on the people playing it. Both financially and emotionally.

As for promoting myself, I feel that individual achievements should rarely be celebrated. I am not going to take part in it for others and I wouldn't want it for myself. If you wonder why our society is so infatuated by individuals and their success, and being a baller, it is not that way for no reason. It is their because it serves a clear purpose. If you get people to look up to someone and adhere to the "gain wealth, forget all but self" motto, then you can get them to ignore the social contract which is very good for power systems. Also it serves as a means of distraction to get people to not pay attention to the things that do matter.

These are just my personal views. And yes, I realize I am conflicted. I capitalize off this game that targets peoples weaknesses. I do enjoy it, I love the strategy part of it, but I do see it as a very dark game.

Happy to read any ones opinions that could convince me otherwise of my views.
Do you think using the media to get the same message across to the masses would have been too much ? I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on the matter, but I also find your actions quite interesting here. I haven't followed the situation too closely but from what I can tell you denied much or any of media coverage but decided to make a post like that on 2p2 (which, lets face it, if you're intelligent enough to make a post like that you are probably smart enough to understand that the contingent you wrote it to is going to neglect it anyway)

congratulations on winning and i hope you will perhaps use your situation to maybe open a few more minds than a mostly close-minded group of poker players, each trying to make a buck for themselves, i think you're in a pretty unique situation to help some people out indirectly as long as they understand the seemingly contradicting position that you would be preaching from
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote
07-03-2014 , 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfDonk
I will be waiting to hear an intelligent response to this. I should have posted this earlier. Any of the haters out there, I'm giving you an advantage because I'm on literally no sleep, it is 6:50am here and I have not slept.
who quotes their own quote only 15 minutes after posting? better yet, who quotes themselves?
2014 <img  Million Buy-In Big One For One Drop Quote

      
m