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What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination?

08-14-2020 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
You spread low income housing throughout. You don稚 isolate it to specific areas.

That fixes a lot of problems. But it really upsets a lot of racists.
NYC has made efforts at various times to spread out public housing in the city. In fact, there is a lot of public housing about 200-300 yards from where I live. I obviously was aware of it when I bought my apartment, and it doesn't trouble me in the slightest.

That said, I am not convinced that spreading out public housing addresses most of the challenges that people who live in public housing face on a daily basis.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-14-2020 , 04:28 PM
I think there has been a good approach recently for all the new developments around the city. Developers promising to have x% of units reserved for low/middle incomes in exchange for tax breaks. This way even the buildings themselves are integrated. Obviously this is not nearly enough to meet the demand, but it seems like a good idea.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-14-2020 , 06:22 PM
Spreading out public housing is one of the very few things people agree on. Even the housing projects in gentrified neighborhoods are probably too concentrated and we should be working on integrating more low income households with subsidized housing with people living in unsubsidized housing.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-14-2020 , 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
Its funny how it works like this everywhere. The bay area is particularly notable due to the lack of affordable housing and strong liberal bent.
lol so true and so boring and long-stipulated.

I wear earplugs a good percentage of the time to just generally mute the world: whether it be my Mom yelling across the dinner table so my deaf Grandma can hear what's being discussed, or to combat yappy little dogs that I encounter during my work, as I'm in and out of 3 or 4 homes during a shift.

When I roll into a QuikTrip parking lot between jobs - still wearing my ear-protection - and some clown is offering everyone within a 5-block-radius a lifestyle advertisement of total disregard for anyone but themselves, they're not likely to be welcomed with open arms.

Like I hadn't considered the joys of tricked-out rims and ear-splitting decibel, let me reassess my life lol
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-14-2020 , 06:58 PM
I live in the hood. It happens at 3 a.m. on Monday mornings. Let's quit acting like there's any mystery to this.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-14-2020 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelhus100
Bump



So in Seattle area last night BLM protesters went through a residential area demanding homeowners abandon their houses and give them to black people. I am presuming most of the wokesters sympathize with this behavior, as long as it is someone else being harassed, but would never dream of giving up their houses.
I doubt this story is true but if it is I am for damn sure voting for Trump.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 01:29 AM
Soros double agent plants imo
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 01:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EADGBE
Well Mr. Douglass didn't get his wish, considering they instituted Jim Crow, which was far far worse than doing nothing.
It's pretty clear Mr. Douglass was speaking to the well-intentioned white folk who later instituted affirmative action.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
It's pretty clear Mr. Douglass was speaking to the well-intentioned white folk who later instituted affirmative action.
Yeah, I think you're full of ****.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
It's pretty clear Mr. Douglass was speaking to the well-intentioned white folk who later instituted affirmative action.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Yeah, I think you're full of ****.
You think he was referring to the bigots? I think you're a dunce.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
Pardon Mr. Frederick Douglass' politically incorrect language but he thought white middle class should do nothing.
This is one of those cases where reading the whole text and being intellectually humble is necessary.

Because then you would have realized that in asking people to do nothing, mr. Douglass is in fact asking a whole lot of people to completely change their ways and views.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
This is one of those cases where reading the whole text and being intellectually humble is necessary.

Because then you would have realized that in asking people to do nothing, mr. Douglass is in fact asking a whole lot of people to completely change their ways and views.
Obviously this. As usual, esspoker is getting his dimestore philosophy out of context.

Douglass was an individualist, to be sure, which is why Clarence Thomas cited this quote in a SCOTUS opinion on affirmative action. But Douglass wasn't concerned about policies that resembled modern-day affirmative action, which were beyond the contemplation of black people or "well intentioned white folk". The closest things to affirmative action at the time were the Freedmen's Bureau and the Freedmen's Savings Bank, both of which Douglass supported.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula72
I doubt this story is true but if it is I am for damn sure voting for Trump.
The girl at 1:21 must be Sean Hannity in blackface.

The sweet thing is they will get more and more emboldened and do this everywhere but all the right wingers have guns and don't GAF whereas the wokesters will feel so conflicted and guiltridden that many of them will put themselves out on the street. It's beautiful.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 11:03 AM
Let's just be more straight forward. Douglass was saying stop acting like blacks are inferior and can't thrive when given the opportunities.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tame_deuces
This is one of those cases where reading the whole text and being intellectually humble is necessary.

Because then you would have realized that in asking people to do nothing, mr. Douglass is in fact asking a whole lot of people to completely change their ways and views.

Clearly you haven't read the speech. I could paste it here but then you might close the thread.


Quote:
WHAT SHALL BE DONE WITH THE SLAVES IF EMANCIPATED?
Douglass' Monthly, January, 1862

It is curious to observe, at this juncture, when the existence of slavery is threatened by an aroused nation, when national necessity is combining with an enlightened sense of justice to put away the huge abomination forever, that the enemies of human liberty are resorting to all the old and ten thousand times refuted objections to emancipation with which they confronted the abolition movement twentyfive years ago. Like the one stated above, these proslavery objections have their power mainly in the slaveryengendered prejudice, which every where pervades the country. Like all other great transgressions of the law of eternal rectitude, slavery thus produces an element in the popular and depraved moral sentiment favorable to its own existence. These objections are often urged with a show of sincere solicitude for the welfare of the slaves themselves. It is said, what will you do with them? they can't take care of themselves; they would all come to the North; they would not work; they would become a burden upon the State, and a blot upon society; they'd cut their masters' throats; they would cheapen labor, and crowd out the poor white laborer from employment; their former masters would not employ them, and they would necessarily become vagrants, paupers and criminals, overrunning all our alms houses, jails and prisons. The laboring classes among the whites would come in bitter conflict with them in all the avenues of labor, and regarding them as occupying places and filling positions which should be occupied and filled by white men; a fierce war of races would be the inevitable consequence, and the black race would, of course, (being the weaker,) be exterminated. In view of this frightful, though happily somewhat contradictory picture, the question is asked, and pressed with a great show of earnestness at this momentous crisis of our nation's history, What shall be done with the four million slaves if they are emancipated?

This question has been answered, and can be answered in many ways. Primarily, it is a question less for man than for God—less for human intellect than for the laws of nature to solve. It assumes that nature has erred; that the law of liberty is a mistake; that freedom, though a natural want of the human soul, can only be enjoyed at the expense of human welfare, and that men are better off in slavery than they would or could be in freedom; that slavery is the natural order of human relations, and that liberty is an experiment. What shall be done with them?

Our answer is, do nothing with them; mind your business, and let them mind theirs. Your doing with them is their greatest misfortune. They have been undone by your doings, and all they now ask, and really have need of at your hands, is just to let them alone. They suffer by every interference, and succeed best by being let alone.
The Negro should have been let alone in Africa—let alone when the pirates and robbers offered him for sale in our Christian slave markets— (more cruel and inhuman than the Mohammedan slave markets)—let alone by courts, judges, politicians, legislators and slavedrivers—let alone altogether, and assured that they were thus to be let alone forever, and that they must now make their own way in the world, just the same as any and every other variety of the human family. As colored men, we only ask to be allowed to do with ourselves, subject only to the same great laws for the welfare of human society which apply to other men, Jews, Gentiles, Barbarian, Sythian. Let us stand upon our own legs, work with our own hands, and eat bread in the sweat of our own brows. When you, our white fellowcountrymen, have attempted to do anything for us, it has generally been to deprive us of some right, power or privilege which you yourself would die before you would submit to have taken from you. When the planters of the West Indies used to attempt to puzzle the pureminded Wilberforce with the question, How shall we get rid of slavery? his simple answer was, "quit stealing." In like manner, we answer those who are perpetually puzzling their brains with questions as to what shall be done with the Negro, "let him alone and mind your own business." If you see him plowing in the open field, leveling the forest, at work with a spade, a rake, a hoe, a pickaxe, or a bill—let him alone; he has a right to work. If you see him on his way to school, with spelling book, geography and arithmetic in his hands—let him alone. Don't shut the door in his face, nor bolt your gates against him; he has a right to learn—let him alone. Don't pass laws to degrade him. If he has a ballot in his hand, and is on his way to the ballotbox to deposit his vote for the man whom he thinks will most justly and wisely administer the Government which has the power of life and death over him, as well as others—let him alone; his right of choice as much deserves respect and protection as your own. If you see him on his way to the church, exercising religious liberty in accordance with this or that religious persuasion—let him alone.—Don't meddle with him, nor trouble yourselves with any questions as to what shall be done with him.

The great majority of human duties are of this negative character. If men were born in need of crutches, instead of having legs, the fact would be otherwise. We should then be in need of help, and would require outside aid; but according to the wiser and better arrangement of nature, our duty is done better by not hindering than by helping our fellowmen; or, in other words, the best way to help them is just to let them help themselves.


We would not for one moment check the outgrowth of any benevolent concern for the future welfare of the colored race in America or elsewhere; but in the name of reason and religion, we earnestly plead for justice before all else. Benevolence with justice is harmonious and beautiful; but benevolence without justice is a mockery.
Let the American people, who have thus far only kept the colored race staggering between partial philanthropy and cruel force, be induced to try what virtue there is in justice. First pure, then peaceable—first just, then generous.—The sum of the black man's misfortunes and calamities are just here: He is everywhere treated as an exception to all the general rules which should operate in the relations of other men. He is literally scourged beyond the beneficent range of truth and justice.—With all the purifying and liberalizing power of the Christian religion, teaching, as it does, meekness, gentleness, brotherly kindness, those who profess it have not yet even approached the position of treating the black man as an equal man and a brother. The few who have thus far risen to this requirement, both of reason and religion, are stigmatized as fanatics and enthusiasts.

What shall be done with the Negro if emancipated? Deal justly with him. He is a human being, capable of judging between good and evil, right and wrong, liberty and slavery, and is as much a subject of law as any other man; therefore, deal justly with him. He is, like other men, sensible of the motives of reward and punishment. Give him wages for his work, and let hunger pinch him if he don't work. He knows the difference between fullness and famine, plenty and scarcity. "But will he work?" Why should he not? He is used to it. His hands are already hardened by toil, and he has no dreams of ever getting a living by any other means than by hard work. But would you turn them all loose? Certainly! We are no better than our Creator. He has turned them loose, and why should not we?

But would you let them all stay here?—Why not? What better is here than there? Will they occupy more room as freemen than as slaves? Is the presence of a black freeman less agreeable than that of a black slave? Is an object of our injustice and cruelty a more ungrateful sight than one of your justice and benevolence? You have borne the one more than two hundred years—can't you bear the other long enough to try the experiment? "But would it be safe?" No good reason can be given why it would not be. There is much more reason for apprehension from slavery than from freedom. Slavery provokes and justifies incendiarism, murder, robbery, assassination, and all manner of violence.— But why not let them go off by themselves? That is a matter we would leave exclusively to themselves. Besides, when you, the American people, shall once do justice to the enslaved colored people, you will not want to get rid of them. Take away the motive which slavery supplies for getting rid of the free black people of the South, and there is not a single State, from Maryland to Texas, which would desire to be rid of its black people. Even with the obvious disadvantage to slavery, which such contact is, there is scarcely a slave State which could be carried for the unqualified expulsion of the free colored people. Efforts at such expulsion have been made in Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina, and all have failed, just because the black man as a freeman is a useful member of society. To drive him away, and thus deprive the South of his labor, would be as absurd and monstrous as for a man to cut off his right arm, the better to enable himself to work.

There is one cheering aspect of this revival of the old and threadbare objections to emancipation—it implies at least the presence of danger to the slave system. When slavery was assailed twenty-five years ago, the whole land took the alarm, and every species of argument and subterfuge was resorted to by the defenders of slavery. The mental activity was amazing; all sorts of excuses, political, economical, social, theological and ethnological, were coined into barricades against the advancing march of anti-slavery sentiment. The same activity now shows itself, but has added nothing new to the argument for slavery or against emancipation.—When the accursed slave system shall once be abolished, and the Negro, long cast out from the human family, and governed like a beast of burden, shall be gathered under the divine government of justice, liberty and humanity, men will be ashamed to remember that they were ever deluded by the flimsy nonsense which they have allowed themselves to urge against the freedom of the long enslaved millions of our land. That day is not far off.

You say he wanted to "change whites' ways and views." Which is also what I said. He wanted whites to give them the same agency as they give themselves. That means - the white Christian liberalism that wanted to free the slaves also led to a paternalism that doesn't let free blacks fail and be on the same plane as whites. That's affirmative action by another name.

He wants to be treated exactly as whites are treated, which means having the same rights but ALSO having the same ability to be judged and be responsible for his actions.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
Let's just be more straight forward. Douglass was saying stop acting like blacks are inferior and can't thrive when given the opportunities.
Exactly. White liberal paternalism.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 01:04 PM
Kelhus video is fake anyway. I was assured by many of the 2p2 residents that only racist deplorables believe that black people wear their pants around their knees.

So, clearly that was staged.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy
Let's just be more straight forward. Douglass was saying stop acting like blacks are inferior and can't thrive when given the opportunities.
Among other things, he also points to the enslavement of black people as an example of not "do nothing", and also directly addresses the passing of laws meant to oppress black people as an example of the same.

"Do nothing" in this context clearly means that people should treat and view black people as equals, which in in the time of the letter (and also today) would mean a radical change in views and behavior from a lot of people.

There is of course the date of writing itself, a potent reminder that Douglass advocated using the civil war as means to end slavery. Which in the grand scheme of things is about as far from a laissez-faire approach as you can get.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-15-2020 , 04:18 PM
I'm super confused about why esspoker thought that posting the entire speech was some sort of ownage of TD.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-16-2020 , 02:35 AM
lol
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-16-2020 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
I'm super confused about why esspoker thought that posting the entire speech was some sort of ownage of TD.
If you'd read it and had reading comprehension skills you'd know why. I even bolded some parts to make it easier on some of you slower ones.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-16-2020 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
If you'd read it and had reading comprehension skills you'd know why. I even bolded some parts to make it easier on some of you slower ones.
If you steal from someone, is it sufficient to just stop stealing from them anymore?
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-16-2020 , 11:31 AM
You forgot to bold the reason for the rhetorical request.

Let he help a brother out :



When you, our white fellowcountrymen, have attempted to do anything for us, it has generally been to deprive us of some right, power or privilege which you yourself would die before you would submit to have taken from you. When the planters of the West Indies used to attempt to puzzle the pureminded Wilberforce with the question, How shall we get rid of slavery? his simple answer was, "quit stealing." In like manner, we answer those who are perpetually puzzling their brains with questions as to what shall be done with the Negro, "let him alone and mind your own business." If you see him plowing in the open field, leveling the forest, at work with a spade, a rake, a hoe, a pickaxe, or a bill—let him alone; he has a right to work. If you see him on his way to school, with spelling book, geography and arithmetic in his hands—let him alone. Don't shut the door in his face, nor bolt your gates against him; he has a right to learn—let him alone. Don't pass laws to degrade him. If he has a ballot in his hand, and is on his way to the ballotbox to deposit his vote for the man whom he thinks will most justly and wisely administer the Government which has the power of life and death over him, as well as others—let him alone; his right of choice as much deserves respect and protection as your own. If you see him on his way to the church, exercising religious liberty in accordance with this or that religious persuasion—let him alone.—Don't meddle with him, nor trouble yourselves with any questions as to what shall be done with him.

He knows the white devils speak with forked tongues. lol
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote
08-16-2020 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
You forgot to bold the reason for the rhetorical request.

Let he help a brother out :



When you, our white fellowcountrymen, have attempted to do anything for us, it has generally been to deprive us of some right, power or privilege which you yourself would die before you would submit to have taken from you. When the planters of the West Indies used to attempt to puzzle the pureminded Wilberforce with the question, How shall we get rid of slavery? his simple answer was, "quit stealing." In like manner, we answer those who are perpetually puzzling their brains with questions as to what shall be done with the Negro, "let him alone and mind your own business." If you see him plowing in the open field, leveling the forest, at work with a spade, a rake, a hoe, a pickaxe, or a bill様et him alone; he has a right to work. If you see him on his way to school, with spelling book, geography and arithmetic in his hands様et him alone. Don't shut the door in his face, nor bolt your gates against him; he has a right to learn様et him alone. Don't pass laws to degrade him. If he has a ballot in his hand, and is on his way to the ballotbox to deposit his vote for the man whom he thinks will most justly and wisely administer the Government which has the power of life and death over him, as well as others様et him alone; his right of choice as much deserves respect and protection as your own. If you see him on his way to the church, exercising religious liberty in accordance with this or that religious persuasion様et him alone.優on't meddle with him, nor trouble yourselves with any questions as to what shall be done with him.

He knows the white devils speak with forked tongues. lol


Exactly.

The democratic party buys votes and promises "free" stuff in return. Yet as he knew, nothing is free.

Welfare - breeds dependency on the government
Affirmative action - makes it harder for blacks on college campuses and in careers to earn respect and be seen as equals
Black History Month - I'll let Morgan Freeman can speak about that

What I and other conservatives want is for them to be treated exactly as equals, which means to let them fail or succeed on their own merit. When every failure becomes something the white man caused, they can't actually experience free choice, they can't succeed.
What should be asked of middle class (white) America to combat systemic discrimination? Quote

      
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