Isn't there a stat in the PBO report that urban people tend to have higher per-capita carbon tax costs mostly because they are richer and thus spend more? I've forgotten the details.

I thought Ukes stat was 85-90% is returned and most folks are net positive?


Hey at least you can say it’s disappointing .

Is it really Canada wide when I don’t know anyone west of Ontario that uses home heating oil.

Anyone that can’t call this for what it is other Justin Trudeau seeing the poll numbers in Atlantic Canada

From Google
About one-third of homes in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador and Prince Edward Island still use heating oil, a far higher proportion than in the rest of Canada.

I don't know what "Ukes stat" was, but that's completely different than this:

Ok not all 100% 8 out of 10 according to google

Can we admit that Justin is just trying to buy Atlantic votes

Will he be pausing climate change for three years as well?

It’s hilarious you pretend to give a **** about addressing climate change.

No natural gas and a lot of older homes not wired for electric heat and/or designed for heat pumps. What do you want people to do? Starve, burn moose droppings?

They got at least 7 years to adapt under trudeau proposition .
What do u propose , doing absolutely nothing , thinking it has no cost either ?

That would make them not a cardiologist? If you happen to be judged wrong here do you think you could claim to be a math teacher?

Regardless? Regardless of what? Your point?


Regardless of your supporting points...its not a strawman? That's an assertion.

Yes, its a baseless scoff, its based on a strawman.

No I didn't make an error, you just acted liked you pointed one out and you said, 'you would think u understand taxes'. I didn't make an error and you didn't cite/quote me making an error. You implied one that doesn't exist. You know this. I'm letting the impartial observers know (otherwise you would quote my error obviously).

I also was making a comment on the carbon tax program. Not at all 'taxes'. And there is no argument that an expert in cbdcs should need to know about carbon taxes to be the expert on cbdcs.

That's ad hominem. I didn't no such thing and you are trying to attack my character. It has nothing to do with my argument, nor did I give any conspiracy theory. I simply reference and cite the WEF.

I have no idea what you are asking me to do here.

Ya so uke has stated how they parse the logic. Now get someone with trusted logic skills to parse the truth. We KNOW uke is super unbalanced to the super. We all agree to this. We KNOW uke doesn't all for the full spectrum of logic.

So now get a logician we trust to parse that logic, otherwise it just an unbalanced view.

You can't. Cause its not logically consistent. This is how logic works, and Uke is strong with logic.

As I've already mentioned, this has nothing to do with logic. The issue is the meaning of the term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Uke wasn't setting up a different argument and refuting it. He was mocking your asserted level of expertise in one area with your lack of knowledge in another. Whether the comparison was legitimate or not, that still isn't a strawman.

Moving on...

Yup you guys need 3rd parties to confirm ur assertions, or it just looks like bias tho right? There are tons of third parties in this community.

I rather enjoyed how this got increasingly incoherent the longer you droned on.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. If you want to continue misusing the term, go for it. I'm moving on.

Thats another assertion I don't think an impartial observer would agree to

Its very simple. You need someone else to confirm the assertions you two are making, else it just looks like ur bending truth to be right.

Logic and reason, don't bend like this. So any logician, anyone with formal reasoning training, is going to give a properly impartial judgment. Since you are well acquainted with the whole forum, it looks weird that you guys don't have any such persons backing ur claims about the validity of the reasoning.

You're thinking I'm going spend time finding someone that will back up my understanding of the meaning of a term? LOL, you need to go for a walk or something.

Didn't think I'd ever say this, but we might need lozen in here to get us back on track with another complaint about Trudeau.

I agree with Bobo that the debate over the definition of strawman should stop here. All that debate is and would continue to be is assertions back and forth, so it just fills the thread without ever making progress. I'm busy but will delete future posts about this whenever I look back.

I don't know why you wouldn't just opine instead.

Do you have any idea of the cost to install a new heat pump system?

Shifty is also right most of these houses would require a new electrical service as well.
Even with rebates your looking at $20,000

Though the positive is that most of Atlantic Canada gets their power from Hydro . Nova Scotia being the lone one that gets the most from coal

It's not just the electrical. It's the design. No open concept, a bunch of small rooms with high ceilings. Not only that it costs money to remove the oil tank, oil furnace and radiators/pipes. All said and done with no issues (Environmental, structural, electrical, etc) your looking at 100k.

The Front Bench had a great discussion on the reduced carbon tax on home heating oil. Even has ukes star Christy Clark on the panel . They all agree this was to buy votes

Bottom line Liberals were at roughly 42% in the polls in July and Conservatives 34 % in Atlantic Canada move forward to late September and the polls showed the Liberals at 32% and the conservatives at 42%. The liberals are desperate

Lets be clear I said for years now the carbon tax disproportionately effect Rural voters and the Liberals finally now agree and good for them .

The voters are smart though and they will realize if Justin would win again he will bring back the tax and hike it

The way you frame "buy votes" is.....interesting. Like I certainly agree this was a political calculation due to political pressure - just like any politician. Do you think Poilievre was trying to "buy votes" with his anti-vaxxer legislation that failed in the house of commons this week? With his plans to eliminate the carbon tax? Basically anything else? Maybe you just want to tie that to ones that that have a dollar figure associate with it, but either way this seems more like politics being politics. And I'm not even convinced this is a bad thing in the bigger picture, any movement to decarbonization is going to ultimately be democratic and while I wish we pushed harder sanding off a few particularly acute pain point along the way is just the name of the game.

Will Poilievre?

Hilarious you pretend to care about this.

Sadly you ignore reality that neither Pierre or Justin will have any effect on climate change . Reality is and you know it we could all go back to the 1900's on how we live and have minimal effect on climate change . India will soon surpass the USA on emissions and China is the worst. Neither of these countries are prepared to sacrifice economic growth to save the planet

You may say its a moral question but Ill take CDN oil jobs over all the materials required to give us solar and electric cars. Ill feel sorry for the next generation and the effects of climate change

To quote a leader of Canada the one of the few times he told us the truth

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/894872131944

I'm sorry, I just don't accept that because we are small on a global scale we have zero responsibility to tame our worst-in-the-G7/G20/developed world emissions per capita (10x worse per capita than india) to be part of a global solution to mitigate the worst extremes of climate change.

I don't accept just putting our head in the sand and pretending like we shouldn't be part of the solution.

I don't accept your nihilism.

In the "next generation" when they look back at our cowardice and our inaction and our unwillingness to put ****ing home heating oil finally to rest where it belongs, I don't think people like you cheering it on will be thought of very favourably.

Who is cheering it on ? The fact is home heating oil and I have no clue what the cost is and that it was used so much in the Atlantic and Ontario. Yes I think the next generation will no doubt look at Justin Trudeau's legacy of accumulating more debt than all the other PM's before him, buying a pipeline, failing to hit all the Paris climate accords and say what were they thinking voting for him

FYI Home Heating oil is fricking expensive

This is so wrong and with bad hypothetical and conclusion but I won’t lose my time anymore on this since lozen seem to have absolutely no coherent logic when it comes to oil ….

Maybe lozen will understand someday (probably not) the cost of doing nothing will exceed the cost of doing something .