Having 80% of the Israeli population isn't imposing on anyone?

Maybe not imposing on anyone who matters to you, ok.

So what? It's still considered occupied by lol International Law.

Nope. It isn't. Israel has a right to exist.

Settlements, maybe but Israel itself as a state, nah.

The modern use of the term Palestinian seems to go back to about 1913 and modern Palestinian nationalism to the mid-30s.

It can't be all Israel. The Arabs at some point have to be good faith actors. Expecting Israel to act in good faith while the Arabs act horribly hasn't worked, and wont work.

Personally, I dont think this happens unless the incentive structure radically changes. Arab belligerence and bad behavior has to stop being rewarded. And for good or bad, Israel seems to accept the rest of the world is going to keep rewarding bad behavior, so it is up to Israel to punitively punish the Arabs on their own. Make the costs of attacking Israel so high they literally wont have the capabilities to do it anymore.

I would rephrase it as modern Palestinian "identity." There was no movement or conceptual framework to form a Palestinian nation state, unlike the European Zionists who were determined to form a European style nation state.

There still really isn't a strong focus to form a centralized nation state. This is something that westerners project. It is a very decentralized culture, dominated by large clans/familes that recently emigrated from places like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Iraq.

Even Hamas itself is very decentralized and functions as clans that act more or less autonomously.

This post and a few other recent ones are so important.

Jordan became Jordan in 1946 (post Brit, post Ottoman)
Iraq became Iraq in 1932 (post Brit, post Ottoman)
Kuwait was 1961 (still post Brit and Ottoman, right?)
Lebanon 1943 (France and Ottoman?)

And we can do this for so many of them. And what do you DO to become a country. It always varies a lot, but certainly it can look like:



1) Declare your intent. Have and declare your vision. Have a government. Have clearly defined borders. Have a permanent population.

2) Be recognized. I did not hurt that in the case of Israel, it wasn't just the USA that recognized their independence. The Soviets did too. So the #1 and #2 superpowers recognize you.

3) Work with the UN. In 1947 the UN voted on the LEGAL split of the Mandate. A Jewish part and an Arab part. The vote past.

4) Become a member of the UN. 1949 for Israel

5) Fight for your life, if you have to. Victory and statehood remains with the winner.




Know what the Palestinians did from this list to become a country? Nothing (well they did #5 and lost, which is how you don't become a country). Know what Israel did to become a country? All of that. All of the things.

The people you are referring too got the country called transjordan which is more than double the size of Israel

I was just describing the term. Most of those people you're talking about are dead. Most of the people in the territories were born after 1967, let alone 1947.

The Netanyahu apologists complaining that Palestine hasn't sufficiently played by the UN's rules is so darkly comical.

There is no Palestine. But the Palestinians declared war and wanted all or nothing. They lost.

It’s “drivel”

Everyone demanding a sovereign Palestinian West Bank is kind of glossing over the fact it is a guarantee such a move would be used to launch devastating attack on Israel's large population centers.

Lets pretend you 100% know this would happen. Do you still think Israel should give the West Bank and just suck it up and accept at some point they will be attacked and their major cities will suffer tremendous damage and casualties?

The irony is that Hamas doesn't even pretend this isn't what is going to happen if Israel agrees to their terms. They explicitly state they are only interested in a 5 year "ceasefire" window to rebuild their offensive capabilities, before resuming the attack on Israel. And even a Hamas accepted "ceasefire" means autonomous militias (Hamas and otherwise) will keep attacking Israel.

Yeah but micro thinks hamas is just kidding!

Nobody is complaining

They went rogue and lost

Well I've never heard of refugee camps lasting 5 generations unless they were being used as pawns so i got confused

They are being used as pawns! That doesn't mean that you kill them because they are weak.

Here is where Mets says that if monarchies and dictatorships can do it why shouldn't israel?

I'm not in favor of having to kill anybody

They shouldn't have poked the bear

You are still more mad at Israel than hamas though

How do you sleep at night

Emotional immaturity in adult men is such a nightmare

Do you comprehend how a Jewish person would want Israel to be good?

Oh cool, I feel better about the 34,000 people Israel has massacred then.

I don't feel bad about the militants included in that number

Well i do

But i do blame hamas for all of this

You make excuses for them

I guess it's a compliment. You expect better from jews i guess

Thank you

Israel is good

They do some not good things and can be criticized for them

They shouldn't be held to a different standard than anybody else though