There are not. Not in the way you are suggesting anyway where the average unattractive male with no game can go or join to then access to sex.

No such place exists.


99.99% of all fetish type sites like that in the hetero world are for women, and were men who fetishizes that (fat girls, etc) can get access.
It is NOT a 2 way street. There is no demand for a Fat Unattractive Guy site where women can creep and go get their fetish filled.



I think you are proving there is not beyond 'paying for it'.

I mean you keep alluding to there being 'lots of ways' while admitting you know of none.

OK, great.

If your view is prostitutes could solve this then that is a valid opinion. I just don't agree with it and we can agree to disagree, which is fine.

I mean, I think, for a percent of men that can always be the answer but there are others who get no satisfaction other than a physical release in paying for sex and many men who feel diminished and dejected by the act and fact that 'only if they pay' can they ever get any.

But agree to disagree.



You really see this group as a monolith. 'All' of them could get what they want from Prostitutes. All of them do not want relationships'.

One thing about human nature and groups is they are almost never a monolith.




Probably fair for a good percent but not all.

ok. not arguing with that as I am not trying to drive sympathy to them. I am just curious about what is driving growth in this group and how it correlates with other SM misfit groups that seem to also be growing.

Prostitutes won’t solve the problem because lack of sex isn’t the actual reason incels are angry socially inept losers. A vagina isn’t a magical therapy box that you can stick your dick in and become a well-adjusted human being.

Only a tiny handful of them ever did that. The rest of them just wanted a place to vent and feel like they belong to a community. Don't see why the vast majority who aren't harming anyone aren't allowed to have their own community where they feel welcome.

I don't think some mechanical sex with a woman for 30 minutes or an hour is going to help them. They are like this due to years of social ostracization and sexual and romantic rejection from women. The problems stem all the way from childhood and high school and need to be addressed then.


No I'm not an MRA guy, I just see the blatant hypocrisy and double standards of everything when it comes to female and male issues. Female issues are given more importance over male issues, whereas it should be about equality.

Many good looking charming guys don't see women beyond sexual relief either. I don't get your point.

Can anyone tell me whether this guy makes any useful constructive contributions to any threads on here? Every post I've seen him make in here is some snide sarcastic remark designed to belittle people. I hope all his 32k posts aren't like this. Thankfully there have been plenty of other constructive posts from other users in here.

This is probably also true of a lot of terrorist orgs.

Cuwpee I'm simply presuming there's hook up sites in this social media age and my point re sex workers is that if this was really about sex, that's the option they could take. But as I said earlier if these guys weren't incels, something else would set them off anyway as again they're disturbed to begin with.
So it isn't really about sex it's about them thinking the world owes them something. It doesn't. They won;t learn this if they're on incel forums all the time. That will simply exacerbate things. Not necessarily a growing movement either, it may simply seem that way as they're networking on social media.
Again this boils down to a matter of choice. Some incels choose to act in such ways because they're disturbed to begin with.

He is disdainful of people discussing topics he does not think need discussing.

It does not matter how many people are engaged in this discussion, he believes it should not happen as the topic at hand (mostly white males) are losers and don't deserve consideration, analysis 0r discussion.

So his goal is to troll the thread and hope to derail it if others are willing to engage him by flaming him back.

If you do flame him back you can be certain you will likely be the one called out for it with 'others' saying 'you can just not do it', while they do not point out same to him.

Ignore it.

In which case the question is why and what can we do about it?

That's assumign we think bringing kids upo not to be disturbed is some sort of solution rather than the massively superior one of calling them names once they are disturbed adults. Or it could be nature in which case ditto.

As I said earlier let LE and the Criminal Justice system handle'em.

LE?

Alawys better if we can to avoid them creating victims and ending up in the criminal justice system than to handle it afterwards. Especially when many of the lessor disturbed might grow up in the meantime. There are plenty of people who can go either way in life depending so much on luck and events.

Yes I know. Your assumption is wrong though. At least with regards for it providing quick and easy and non paid sex for the average unattractive male with no game.

I understand. I do not think it is 'only' about sex, as others too have pointed out. Also i do not think for those that it is mainly about sex would all be satisfied with a pro.

The one thing you are not recognizing is that not every guy sees paid sex as an equivalent to consensual free sex. Just like masturbation is not. They may all achieve the same end result but they are not all perceived the same.

Don't necessarily disagree but I also think this is too monolithic.

In amongst these 'incels' in these groups are just some lonely and pathetic guys who legit just cannot find a GF and have found some solace in these groups. They are not necessarily hating anyone nor wanting to harm anyone. They are just stuck in self blame and self loathing and find some comfort around other such 'losers' . They may become socialized to more harsh views over time or some may just find a GF before they are and leave the groups.

But there is a growing wave on 'loneliness' for young men that they are going to have to figure out, mostly on their own, as you can see the levels of disdain they would face if they admitted and sought help. Those pathetic losers. Just go get laid and get over it. I think that might be the kindest reaction they would get.




OK. I am not really saying they are owed anything.

Agreed.
Not what most data is showing.

And while not all the articles above are dating specific I think they all speak to an intertwined issue that results in the seeds of what lead many of these men towards being an incel.

I also suspect many (maybe most here) will glance at the articles, see they are 'mostly white male problems' and have revulsion at it being discussed while waving their hands 'who caress... losers', thinking that is where this should start and stop.

I agree with the others above; it's not just about the lack of sex. It's much more about the lack of a relationship and being made to feel inferior in the eyes of society.

IMO they are really lashing out at society itself and not necessarily "women" or "chads" or whatever.

The "why should I contribute anything to a society that shits on me..." thought process leading to a "them vs us" mentally makes a lot more sense from this perspective.

IMO there is nothing you can do about the actual situation/cause but there is still a lot that could be done to support them so as not to react with anger/hate (or sadness/suicide in the case of FAs I mentioned before).

This essay puts forward a pretty good case against pushing the societal-wide narrative that everyone should aim to be in a relationship:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Relationshi.../dp/0993538746

Juk

Good article.

I think it is fair to say they feel rejected and they feel like 'Rejects'.

And by this thread you can see how wiling and I think is fair to say, eager most are to tell them exactly that.

There is a near relish to tell them 'you are a loser and there is no help for you, just jail' and i wonder if that plays into the psychology of men typically being disdainful of weakness in 'men'. An almost reflexive revulsion.

well one day, i hope to find out. will post results

Just want to add again, from my post a few pages ago there is a massive gap in apps tho, I know someone who swipes right on 99% of profiles, his tinder algo isn't crushed since he still gets 2-3 matches a day and 3-4 likes a day. on top of his 100s of matches. this is not the norm and if you guys know how tinder algo works, it should have crushed him early and put him down.

the 10% of guys think prolly is true for university sections but if you broaden it Ican see it, in a vacuum being kinda of true outside of it in terms of capability.


its hard truth but what im saying is that if you're an average or below avg guy, you better have a great profile and good mental or else the dating app game isnt for you since it might crush your childlike mentality if you get angry, Sady depressed at not getting matches.

becuz of this thread, i might dl the tinder app and explore.


also men and women in general needs more hobbies if they feel 'alone" i don't even know what feeling alone really means, not sure many do since its blanket statement

In ~50 years or even sooner when are are all living in pods drunk on virtual reality, gaming, and social media, this will actually be not only possible but compulsory. And in becoming so the masses will welcome this forced boundary separation with open arms.

it is the nature of human beings to dismiss the "other" as being stupid, inconsequential, evil, or better yet not existing at all. because at the end of the idea what we really want is to feel good about ourselves. modern technology will finally make this idealized view of reality a real possibility.

it is also a known fact that people with autism/aspergers and schizophrenia are much less likely to form relationships. its not hard to extrapolate from that that a plurality of incels are probably from those two groups.

perhaps more effort should be made into treating these illnesses or better yet preventing them in the first place rather than throwing these people under the rug and pretending they dont exist, are evil, or are stupid. i have my doubts, though. there's not enough money in it. much cheaper and more profitable to make pods and VR.

This.

- https://autismawarenesscentre.com/ro...le-people-asd/

The Guardian newspaper has run a couple of surveys on disability and relationships/sex, but sadly it's behind a paywall:

- https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...sexual-swagger

and that's just for "disability" - the statistics for those with deformities and disfigurement are likely to be far worse...

Juk

Ah, you are more of a Wall-E futurist instead of an Idiocracy one.

I can't think of many conditions which is more focused on than autism and related issues, so the rant misses the mark for me.

As for "these people", disgust with incel ideology is tied to the movement's acceptance of violence, murder and rape. Trying to imply that this ideology is somehow a result of autism or aspergers is, to say the least, an insulting argument.

When someone starts with "it is also a known fact," that usually means that their whatever agenda is what matters to them much more than how factual their "known fact" actually is in reality, though some have no shortage of similar agenda based studies and factoids (often taken out of context) at their disposal to validate their agenda. That is why I simply say derps gonna derps.

The "ideology" is a result of loneliness and a feeling of being excluded from society.

The reasons for loneliness and feelings of being excluded from society are many, but autism does seem to be a leading factor (as acknowledged by many in the incel community themselves).

Juk

- https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-...ctrum-disorder

Even without any studies; by it's very definition these people are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to starting any form of relationship; social, sexual or otherwise.

Juk

Many are unable to communicate at a functional level, so of course that will have an impact on the statistics. That does not mean that there is a direct correlation between that disorder and violent incels. Just feels like the people in this thread who are not capable of a social relationship are looking for an out and/or scapegoat. That form of "logic" is common and it was seen and used all the time in the derpy BFI Covid thread to rationalize a whole bunch of agendas when that thread was roaring along. As I said, derps gonna derp.

I very much doubt they start off by thinking men are entitled to rape and murder women, that's a part of the radicalization that happens once they are in the fold. I'm aware of the counter that not all incels think like that, but to me that's just like saying not all neo-nazis think terrorism is okay - they still choose to be member of a movement where such extremist ideology is rampant.

And no, being lonely and excluded does not lead to radical incel ideology either. Plenty of people are lonely and excluded and are still perfectly capable of understanding that being a decent human being is still the way to go.

As a factor that makes the radicalization and recruitment easier? Sure. But the main problem with the incel movement is still the radicalization.

are you seriously suggesting that people with autism, apsergers, and schizophrenia are just as likely to form healthy relationships with the opposite sex as unaffected individuals? information to the contrary is accessible after 2 minutes on pubmed using information from public domain repositories such as pubmed central.

your denial of the handicaps caused by mental illness is unfortunately quite typical amongst American society and is one of the reasons mental health in the USA is poor overall, as nobody really thinks its a problem or a big deal until it happens to them or someone they are close to.

now with Covid induced isolation, i suspect the problem will get much worse. and then, 8-12 years down the road, the fact that many mothers became sick with covid during pregnancy will also induce a new wave of mental illness as inflammation during pregnancy is strongly associated with future risk for severe mental illness in both human epidemiological studies as well as translational models in rodents and other systems.