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03-28-2023 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wet work
Along with the ~20 others that have been standard for your entire life



Since the beginning covid shots have been avg'ing somewhere around 20bux a pop. All the screeching has amounted to the govt saying fine we'll do it your way and pharma saying(unless they're in the info wars too...nahhh ) ok whatever but it's going to be 150 then morons
be honest, how many boosters have you gotten? 10?
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Covid-19 Discussion
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03-28-2023 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wet work
Along with the ~20 others that have been standard for your entire life
Those 20 others stop infection and spread and don't wear off after 5 weeks.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-28-2023 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 south
Those 20 others stop infection and spread and don't wear off after 5 weeks.
That has a lot to do with why many people don't trust the COVID vaccines now. They were sold as being similar to something like a measles vaccine, instead of a flu shot. Also, at one time it was considered some kind of a bad thing to compare COVID to the seasonal flu, turns out there are a lot of similarities.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
That has a lot to do with why many people don't trust the COVID vaccines now. They were sold as being similar to something like a measles vaccine, instead of a flu shot.
Sure, it was oversold. It's a shame that so many people aren't able to see that clearly there's some learning on the fly going on, so not everything will be perfect. But here we are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
Also, at one time it was considered some kind of a bad thing to compare COVID to the seasonal flu, turns out there are a lot of similarities, several variants later.
FYP, because I don't think it was a great comparison for at least the first year.
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03-29-2023 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
That has a lot to do with why many people don't trust the COVID vaccines now. They were sold as being similar to something like a measles vaccine, instead of a flu shot. Also, at one time it was considered some kind of a bad thing to compare COVID to the seasonal flu, turns out there are a lot of similarities.
I can't swear it wasn't presented that way where you heard it, but I don't remember it ever being presented as similar to the measles. I definitely heard a lot of speculation, even before the first vaccines were given to regular folks, that you might need one every year, similar to the flu shots.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 02:14 AM
I also don't remember any guarantees that it would eradicate covid and I remember plenty of talk about why a vaccine for this kind of virus is difficult (it mutates so often). To be fair, I don't think the caveats were communicated in press conferences.
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03-29-2023 , 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
That has a lot to do with why many people don't trust the COVID vaccines now. They were sold as being similar to something like a measles vaccine, instead of a flu shot.
They were absolutely not "sold" like this and the reason people are skeptical has nothing to do with that and everything to do with a deranged right-wing media that's been feeding people bullshit.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
That has a lot to do with why many people don't trust the COVID vaccines now. They were sold as being similar to something like a measles vaccine, instead of a flu shot. Also, at one time it was considered some kind of a bad thing to compare COVID to the seasonal flu, turns out there are a lot of similarities.
I don't remember anyone saying that a COVID shot would provide lifelong immunity like a measles vaccine. That was never my understanding, even before the vaccines were available.

IMO, people are skeptical mainly for three reasons. First, the government oversold the ability of vaccines to prevent infection. Reduced severity seems to be the major benefit. Second, the overall government messaging on COVID, especially w/r/t masks and the risk of outdoor transmission, was inconsistent. That was partly due to evolving understanding and panic, but whatever the reason, inconsistent messaging tends to make people skeptical and stokes urges to "do your own research." Third, the derposphere and CTs wildly oversold the risks and side effects of vaccines.

Last edited by Rococo; 03-29-2023 at 09:01 AM.
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03-29-2023 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
I don't remember anyone saying that a COVID shot would provide lifelong immunity like a measles vaccine. That was never my understanding, even before the vaccines were available.

IMO, people are skeptical mainly for three reasons. First, the government oversold the ability of vaccines to prevent infection. Reduced severity seems to be the major benefit. Second, the overall government messaging on COVID, especially w/r/t masks and the risk of outdoor transmission, was inconsistent. That was partly due to evolving understanding and panic, but whatever the reason, inconsistent messaging tends to make people skeptical and stokes urges to "do your own research." Third, the derposphere and CTs wildly oversold the risks and side effects of vaccines.
I am not sure you should be using the past tense when pointing out govt messaging and policy being inconsistent. For example, the US govt requires proof of vaccination/booster to legally travel to the US which itself is insanity at this point in the pandemic, but not on top of this thousands of migrants (including school aged children) are crossing the border/day and applying for asylum (or whatever) with no requirement of any vaccinations, much less Covid.**

With this kind of wild inconsistency why in the world would anyone trust the govt?

**As much as the media likes to make a deal about a small minority of native "anti-vax" parents, this is actually the main reason so many childhood diseases we actually have effective vaccines for are making a resurgence.
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03-29-2023 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunyain
I am not sure you should be using the past tense when pointing out govt messaging and policy being inconsistent. For example, the US govt requires proof of vaccination/booster to legally travel to the US which itself is insanity at this point in the pandemic, but not on top of this thousands of migrants (including school aged children) are crossing the border/day and applying for asylum (or whatever) with no requirement of any vaccinations, much less Covid.**

With this kind of wild inconsistency why in the world would anyone trust the govt?

**As much as the media likes to make a deal about a small minority of native "anti-vax" parents, this is actually the main reason so many childhood diseases we actually have effective vaccines for are making a resurgence.
Anyone who trusts the U.S. Government on almost ANYTHING is either ignorant or a fool in my humble opinion.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunyain
I am not sure you should be using the past tense when pointing out govt messaging and policy being inconsistent. For example, the US govt requires proof of vaccination/booster to legally travel to the US which itself is insanity at this point in the pandemic, but not on top of this thousands of migrants (including school aged children) are crossing the border/day and applying for asylum (or whatever) with no requirement of any vaccinations, much less Covid.
It's not inconsistent to recognize that the world as a complex place where you often have multiple competing interests in any decision you make.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
I also don't remember any guarantees that it would eradicate covid and I remember plenty of talk about why a vaccine for this kind of virus is difficult (it mutates so often). To be fair, I don't think the caveats were communicated in press conferences.
it absolutely was presented as such. get 90% of the population vaxxed and develop herd immunity. that was a large rationale for requiring younger and low risk people to be jabbed.

for a long time it was "anti-vaxx" to even speculate that maybe the vaccine is not preventing infection as much as promised.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
it absolutely was presented as such. get 90% of the population vaxxed and develop herd immunity. that was a large rationale for requiring younger and low risk people to be jabbed.

for a long time it was "anti-vaxx" to even speculate that maybe the vaccine is not preventing infection as much as promised.
Herd immunity can lead to eradication but they're not the same thing. I do think you're right in the sense that this distinction could have been better clarified. I also agree with your second paragraph. There was definitely a lot of social pressure, at least online, to not question anything. People had to preface anything that wasn't clearly supportive with, "I'm vaccinated but...".

Edit: Doing a quick search of old news articles I came across something. Seems some of us have faulty memory after all:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...or-early-april

Quote:
Herd immunity occurs when enough people become immune to the disease that the spread of the virus from person to person becomes unlikely. Fauci pointed to polio and measles as examples of herd immunity.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
That has a lot to do with why many people don't trust the COVID vaccines now. They were sold as being similar to something like a measles vaccine, instead of a flu shot.
My recollection varies. It was very much proposed on the same lines as flu jabs, with a degree of immunity for a period measured in months, and has been carried out that way because it is known that coronaviruses mutate rapidly. We seem to be fortunate that Covid-19 has mutated to be largely non-fatal. The 1918 horror is believed to have gone extinct because it killed its hosts faster than it could find new ones, which is a bit of a mistake for a virus to make if it looks forward to a long and flourishing career as an extant organism.
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03-29-2023 , 02:16 PM
Solve for the distress of nations with perplexity.
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03-29-2023 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
it absolutely was presented as such. get 90% of the population vaxxed and develop herd immunity. that was a large rationale for requiring younger and low risk people to be jabbed.

for a long time it was "anti-vaxx" to even speculate that maybe the vaccine is not preventing infection as much as promised.
I posted the following on February 12, 2021, which was around the time the vaccine was becoming available. I'm virtually certain that I was repeating the conventional wisdom at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
I don't see any universe in which COVID is eradicated entirely like smallpox.

Isn't it virtually inevitable that we are headed in the direction of an annual vaccination scenario, with some (hopefully manageable) risk that new variants will emerge that are especially virulent or resistant to the vaccine?

With the understanding that COVID is not the flu, don't we run an annual risk that there will be flu variants that are especially virulent or resistant to a vaccine?
And here is an article from WebMD in May 2020, long before vaccines were available, speculating that COVID vaccines would probably be an annual thing.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...y-be-necessary

I don't know where you all are getting the idea that we were being sold the idea that the vaccine would eradicate COVID.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
Herd immunity can lead to eradication but they're not the same thing. I do think you're right in the sense that this distinction could have been better clarified. I also agree with your second paragraph. There was definitely a lot of social pressure, at least online, to not question anything. People had to preface anything that wasn't clearly supportive with, "I'm vaccinated but...".

Edit: Doing a quick search of old news articles I came across something. Seems some of us have faulty memory after all:

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...or-early-april
I just remember bc Trolly really really really wanted to ban people for this stuff. he even succeeded sometimes.

another part I remember is that we were told we could stop wearing a mask after getting vaxxed bc it provided enough prevention. many people got super made that others werent getting vaxxed bc they wanted to go maskless.

mask still remains the best way to prevent Covid.

which reminds me that at the beginning of the pandemic the gov said that masks were not helpful. then they were like, oh wait, we were lying bc we didnt have enough PPE for drs so we tricked yall. but trust us now.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
another part I remember is that we were told we could stop wearing a mask after getting vaxxed bc it provided enough prevention.
Not sure where you heard this bit of nonsense. Not from CDC, NIH, WHO etc.
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03-29-2023 , 02:49 PM
I moved C19 discussion out of In Other News
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03-29-2023 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew
Not sure where you heard this bit of nonsense. Not from CDC, NIH, WHO etc.
the CDC absolutely said we could stop wearing masks if vaxxed. and then when delta hit they recommended masking again.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/dr...-gop-criticism

Quote:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reimposed stricter mask-wearing guidelines Tuesday. It said Americans, even if fully vaccinated, should wear masks indoors in regions where COVID-19 infections are high,
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-29-2023 , 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
I just remember bc Trolly really really really wanted to ban people for this stuff. he even succeeded sometimes.

another part I remember is that we were told we could stop wearing a mask after getting vaxxed bc it provided enough prevention. many people got super made that others werent getting vaxxed bc they wanted to go maskless.

mask still remains the best way to prevent Covid.

which reminds me that at the beginning of the pandemic the gov said that masks were not helpful. then they were like, oh wait, we were lying bc we didnt have enough PPE for drs so we tricked yall. but trust us now.
The only thing I would push back on here is the last paragraph. That may have been the case but we don't know that. It's at least as reasonable to believe that it was an evolving situation with a novel virus and they made mistakes along the way.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-30-2023 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
The only thing I would push back on here is the last paragraph. That may have been the case but we don't know that. It's at least as reasonable to believe that it was an evolving situation with a novel virus and they made mistakes along the way.
It's documented in interviews and emails.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07...cdc-masks.html

Quote:
In March 2020, as the pandemic began, Anthony Fauci, the chief medical adviser to the president of the United States, explained in a 60 Minutes interview that he felt community use of masks was unnecessary.
Quote:
A few months later, he argued that his statements were not meant to imply that he felt the data to justify the use of cloth masks was insufficient. Rather, he said, had he endorsed mask wearing (of any kind), mass panic would ensue and lead to a surgical and N95 mask shortage among health care workers, who needed the masks more.
Quote:
Yet, emails from a Freedom of Information Act request revealed that Fauci privately gave the same advice—against mask use—suggesting it was not merely his outward stance to the broader public.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-30-2023 , 11:30 AM
its ludicrous if he actually thought masks were not helpful. dude is supposed to be the top decision maker for infectious disease and he initially thought masks dont work? I like the cynical version better jfc.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-30-2023 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
It's documented in interviews and emails.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07...cdc-masks.html
Thanks for that. I have to admit I'm a bit torn on the strategy. It probably helps the current pandemic in the beginning but undermines trust for when the next one comes around. On the other hand, had panic buying ensued, like it did with toilet paper it might have been catastrophic for hospitals and retirement homes. Do you go with undermining long term trust to save lives in the present or be completely honest and fail your mandate. Seems like a tough choice.
Covid-19 Discussion Quote
03-30-2023 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls
Do you go with undermining long term trust to save lives in the present or be completely honest and fail your mandate. Seems like a tough choice.
WW(cfw)D
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