https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59758780

I was.

There is no reason to argue over me saying Herd immunity. I heard it said on tv at least 3 times yesterday. No one is using it in a strict way.

Uke is not only going out of his way to find things to nitpick to argue with me over but then also to not let them go as simply something to agree to disagree over. If he wants to say he hates the way it is being used fine. But to tell me i am wrong, when i am not, is not going to end well, if at all. And he knows that. He also knows when he does it people (especially you) are likely to call me out for it, and not him, and he likes that too. It is super predictable at this point.

I think you also drop back to partially if and when your booster becomes available to you and then, until you get it.

I also think most importantly that vaccines are no guarantee for herd immunity. Diseases do not magically die out because we vax. We have seasonal epidemics for a reason even with vaccines.

So if we are going to parse the words very tightly and accurately (which I am fine with) then the constant talk about the desire for and us not reaching herd immunity thanks to those not taking the vaccine needs to stop. It is the most common thing you will hear on the news said by scientists and doctors if you just take an hour and listen.

Secondly a cull has NEVER referred to a singe wave of deaths. Culls in deer populations happen over time and continuously.

So I guess I am saying these are weird, non sequitur distinction that don't really apply here.

We have population groups, the aged and the obese who can increasingly live longer with a growing list of managed comorbidities. They are living longer but are very vulnerable. That managed condition puts them at increasing risk to break through infections or viruses or novel viruses. They will often be disproportionately impacted within that population group.

By all historic loose use of the term that IS a cull within that group and society. It is a thinning of that group in society of its most vulnerable and weakest members leaving the rest as the stronger, more able to fight off the threat members.

But yes covid is here to stay and I agree with the rest of your post.

Agreed but there is also a large degree of luck in that.

The most successful viruses do not kill the hosts too efficiently, which is true but they really don't care if they do. What they care about is proliferation and spread.

Covid is so efficient as it has the long incubation period to spread before the secondary effects (death, sickness, asymptomatic, etc) that it can spread before the worst damage is done. A shorter incubation period and more serious outcomes (ebola) will take the spreader out of action and thus prevent some spread as people avoid that person.

However if a new covid variant with the same profile of Omicron for spread, but with a lethality many times that but on a slower back end correlation to death was to emerge, there is no reason it would not run thru the population as successfully as Omicron did. There is no evolutionary pressure to really slow that variant down as the variants are not thinking multi generational, ...just max spread.

If we get unlucky and a variant with more transmissibility than omicron emerges with a slower to emerge but more deadly symptomatic profile emerges, we could be in real trouble.

I believe the Covid Therapeutic pills (anti-viral) now both at least in limited emergency approval use stages are the big game changer for the unvax'd.

These pills are proving enormously efficacious for anyone who gets covid and takes them as symptoms are in the early stages of presenting.

What it means is that if you suspect you have any of the sign of covid you can take a quick test and if infected, pop this pill and avoid most severe covid outcomes.

To date the anti vax derps have not been as hesitant to run out and pop anything in their bodies, including horse meds, once infected. There battle has mainly against taking something while healthy (vax) and gambling they won't be one of the ones to catch covid.

That said I am not in denial that anti therapeutic nonsense will be spread to them and many will refuse these two items while gobbling down horse meds but IMO once they have access to the vax and refuse it, and once they have access to these easy therapeutics and refuse it, it is time for society to stop taking any measures to protect them from themselves and only focus on the health care system and its ability to manage as virus variations rip thru them, until they achieve some levels of herd immunity, after the cull.


FDA review finds Merck’s COVID-19 pill effective, but flags safety concerns

Pfizer says Covid-19 pill near 90% effective in final analysis

Re the above it will be interesting to see the data on who is taking those pills once fully available.


Any one in a 'risk' group who is diagnosed with covid, certainly should take them as extra buffer but beyond that if you are vax'd and not in a risk group, do you take one as a precaution just in case, if diagnosed with covid, even though you know that not being in a risk group means you were enormously likely to not have any bad impacts from infection and if you are up to date on your vax you really, really are at tiny risk even with break thru infection?


I think we will see a segment in society that despite not being in a risk group and despite being properly vax'd will gobble these up like Pez at any diagnosis of covid. They will not even care to try and determine if the odds of harm from the Pills is mathematically higher than the odds of harm from covid. It is more an emotional crutch for them.

I, myself, do not think I would take the pills despite being, by age on the cusp of a risk group (53) but being fully vax'd and healthy otherwise, I think, at this point anyway, I would not take the pill to try and offset symptoms that may or may not present in a serious way.

The point is that each previous wage of infection has given us more protection from variants that dont exist yet. That makes it much harder to 'find' a lethal strain because it has to escape T-cell/etc protection. It's the quickly inefective antibodies combined with much harder to escape T-Cell/etc protection that cooperated in allowing that to happen. it's not that the mutataion are more likely to find something but that there are less lethal variantions to be found as a proportion of all the variations that could be found

Put another way if Omega is as infectious as Omicron and 100% deadly to someone who has never had covid then there will still most likely be a great deal of protection in the popualtions via T-cell/etc from previous infectious. That's thanks to the 'weakness' of antibody protection.

They will take effective pills in a heartbeat. (plus no doubt a lot of quack quack pills). There is no real compartison between those unwilling to take a preventative vs those willing to a cure.

agree somewhat.

But an all out misinformation campaign about the pills could deter many derps.

Also the 'cure' effect only seems to work if you take the pills in the few key days after infection. If you spend time in denial and not getting a covid check until you are already feeling really sick and thus desperate for a cure, it might be too late.

I am not sure if Derps will be proactive in getting a test as the first signs of infection that might just be passing or a cold or other.

Sure the need to take a test quickly will hurt many. Probably including me.

I suspect the anti-vaxers on a whole are more scared if they sneeze than the general population but that may just be wild conjecture.

It is an interesting question whether derps who refuse vaccines will pop some pills from the same evil Pharma/government sphere. Sure, they pop all sorts of pills, but those are ones the people who monetize them tell them to take, so in the end it really comes down to whether Rogan and other derp herders tell them these pills are good or bad, as most derps are the definition of passive consumers. That was evident in the Covid thread in BFI as nearly all the derp stuff was recycled alt right info they were told to believe.

Now, will Rogan and the other derp herders embrace this new pill? Honestly, I am not sure which way to wager on that, but whatever they tell the derps to do - the derps will follow.

Actually, I quite intentionally didn't call either of you out individually, as I think you were both at fault, as is often the case (that both parties to a derail are responsible for it).

That said, I hold out hope that one day you'll reflect on how often you're one of those two parties.

My apologies to others for this little derail, which I'll do my best to be done with now.

Cliffs

Covid patients on a ventilator might have not received the correct treatment. The lungs received damages from it more than it helped them. If this is true, the fatalities we saw in Italy and all over the world are be due to this mistreatment.




I posted this in the Canada thread but it belongs here, obviously.

No. No reflection.

I have every right to discuss one of the most common term you hear used in these discussions, 'herd immunity'.

If he feels that is something he needs to confront me and insist I am wrong, sure we will then fight. You can blame for it. But maybe for a test I will just randomly start replying to any and all of your posts you are 'wrong' about things and then if you merely reply, when you are not' we are equally to blame'. Seems like good logic.

I was listening to a news segment not 30 minutes ago and herd immunity came up as it is being used in a very casual way constantly now.

Cliffs: You watch a ton of Youtube. Be sure to like, share and subscribe those who are monetizing you. You owe them that.

All the best.

Monty, pro tip, no need to like. You sub and you get to see the content u like. Anyways, ffs Monty this is important info. This is not some punk kid this is the director (a doc) of an icu unit for cov patients in NYC, got it? He does not give a **** about a few dollars from YouTube. Anyways if you ever should be on a ventilator, make sure they do what he says. Have the machine, the vent not treat lack of breathing, because apparently the muscle works fine. It's the lack of oxigen that is missing. So don't let them f up your lungs by squeezing them beyond repair. That's what he says nothing more imo.

You too all the best and happy holidays. Both of you.

@ bobo

1 dose is almost as good as no dose as of now. At least for covid passes etc. So that does not count. It's 77% look it up. Fully vaxxed that is. Nothing else matters here. Why am I asking Americans? Because the us is not called the big brother for nothing, or cousins. They almost always follow along. What you decide, we decide. Or at least you are some kind of indicator for what happens here. Merkel was a puppet to Obama etc.etc.

You constantly post derpy Youtube stuff and make up all sorts of weird stuff (you probably believe in). By math you may by happenstance get a reasonable source in one of your many spammed links, but that does not mean the process in which you consume and vomit information is valid. You have a long track record in that regard, and that is the issue. Most of the threads you start you quickly ask to be locked because they are such a mess. Look at this latest post - you still cannot grasp the flawed math in your 77% number, no matter how many times it has been pointed out (hint, it still includes 0-4 years old who cannot get it and 5-12 who have not had time to get all shots, it is 87% excluding those groups). Yeah, Lozen got that wrong as well, but he was more ranting about Trudeau as his form of breathing.

Believe it or not, I am not saying this to insult you on a personal basis, but a big problem these days is that so much bad information is created to monetize derps and then they spread it and that is a process which should be pointed out when it happens. Some, like Bobo go to crazy effort at times to explain(in my opinion for no benefit as people like you do not really learn - as we saw in your latest locked thread). I choose a more blunt approach, though I also fully get that how you see the world is completely locked in. You will still consume dozens of hours of Youtube each week to find what you want to believe in, and in no way to I fault those who also see that and then create content to monetize you as a passive consumer.

All the best.

Funny how all reputable sites come up with 77%

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/g...accine-tracker

77% Canada. 70% Germany. 62% USA. Looks all correct to me.
In all fairness I have seen 90% on only one site that is a Canadian one. But that doesn't match most of the other ( bigger)sites.

Where do you get that number? Are u Canadian? Well I'm not. I have to trust the big sites.

Perhaps if I type this slower that will help.

That figure includes all humans, even those born yesterday. People age 0-4 cannot get the vaccine, and that 77% figure includes them. It also includes 5-12 year olds who have not had enough time yet in Canada to get both shots for the most part. 87% (and growing) of the population 12 and older in Canada (ie: they could have had both shots by now) have had both shots. That is really the number that matters, because that shows an accurate figure of vaccine acceptance. My source is just the government of Canada's official website dedicated to tracking these figures. Here it is again. Try to see how they show the specific figure of vaccinations among those 12+.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...tion-coverage/

I say all of this knowing you will not understand it at all. Have fun on Youtube this week, and take that vitamin D.

All the best.

Well I read this now about 3 times from you now. You know what? It doesn't make a difference how many times you write it unless you post a source.
I posted one and it says 77%.

All THE other sites are correct about all other countries, why would they be off with Canada? And for starters, all these sites only count over 18y olds imo, Let's cuepee decide what is right, if anyone knows it him. He's Canadian and would know this.

Edit: I see now you posted a link. That exact site I have seen too. Again I don't know if I can trust this since all other sites say a different number.

In all honesty if bobo and you are so insisting this number is correct it probably is. But then why on earth are the other sites all wrong? And why is cuepee not saying anything? Something is fishy here... but i actually don't care too much and let u win this one. Merry Christmas!

I posted the source multiple times. Perhaps you do not know how links work, but if you click on them it will take you to the site.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...tion-coverage/

There you will see that 29,165,541 Canadians are fully vaccinated. That is 76.26% of the entire population (including groups that could not get it yet ie: 0-4 year olds). You will also see that Canadians 12+ has 29,130,513 that are fully vaccinated. That represents 87% of all Canadians that are 12+ (all of whom could have had both shots by now). 87% of Canadians who could have both shots by now have both shots.

The last figure is a new one, which shows that only 32,772 kids 5-11 are fully vaccinated, which is only 1.14% of all kids 5-11. That is low because they were only approved relatively recently, so very few have had both doses.

I say all of the above fully realizing that you will not understand it in the slightest and you probably will think I still did not post a link to the source.

Anyway, If you want to believe that the Canadian government site which tracks every dose given and has all the demographic data of the country is wrong to believe what you want to believe then go for it. In the end, I do not care, because your messaging is always a mess anyways, so this latest hot take of yours is a relatively harmless and amusing variant (hint, that was a pun), as at least this time you did not spew away any money (like with your Dogecoin experiment).

All the best.

Ok my bad you actually posted it and I missed it in the other thread, sorry. Anyways, in July Canada was at less than 50% fully vaccinated and now 6 month later you are at 90%? Am I really supposed to believe that?

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57869947.amp

The 90% refers to the adult population vaccination rate, and Canada is indeed at about 90% per its official sources.

We got vaccines months after the USA. I was not fully vaccinated until July, because they had a staggered approach to giving the limited supply (older people and health care workers etc first), and that was because I found a slot to reschedule my second one (was originally scheduled for end of September). June, July and August is when a ton of Canadians finally got fully vaccinated, once the supply issues were resolved.

No idea what to tell you if you will not believe the official government of Canada website, but you will believe rando derpy Youtube nonsense you spam, other than continue to support the derp herders who make the content that you want to passively consume. They have earned it.

All the best.