Ah, so that's that app thing you guys have out there where you log symptoms and it assumed a probably covid case?

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the # of U.S. deaths from Covid is closing in on ONE MILLION

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ts/8835009002/


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Masking up indoors is going to save many lives (mostly unvaccinated).

In Georgia schools in 2020 those school districts with mask mandates had 37% fewer Covid cases than those school districts with no mandates. This is in synch with studies that are showing mask mandates will reduce Covid spread by 50% to 70% (the reason why Georgia schools was at only 37% is likely because some were wearing masks in non-mandated districts whereas in the tests nobody was wearing masks and/or type of masks being worn).

The other major factor is that for unvaccinated people who have already gotten Covid and feel immune, it will hold true for 96% of them. But for the other 4%, because they have two or more comorbidities they will be very vulnerable to hospitalization and death. By wearing masks we can help protect these people. I am not usually prone to helping people who aren't asking for my help but in this case I want to know that I have done everything I can to not be responsible for somebody else's death.

I just went in to a Chipotles in NY and left without ordering. 3 of the servers were either not wearing their masks or had dropped them below their noses. I am going to see my 94 year old mom in a week and want to reduce the chances of getting Covid though she is fully vaccinated with booster. My family is also going to Covid test before the family dinner. But that is not foolproof.


The US is most likely closing on 1.5 million deaths as a result of Covid. Almost every country has tons of unexplained deaths. Most countries like the US did not test dead people for Covid in 2020 unless they were hospitalized. Russia though led the league with 5x the number of deaths than reported.

New York taking concrete action to address the anti vaxxers

https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/a416

If you live in NY, refuse to do the right thing and get vaccinated, you can expect to be removed from your residence and placed into a quarantine camp, and rightfully so.

I wish we would go further and do this on a national scale. There needs to be two separate societies, one for the alex jones q-anon lunatics and one for the normal citizens who believe in science.

I skimmed the bill, and I didn't see vaccinations mentioned at all. It mentioned cases, contacts and carriers. Looks like Fake News to me.

Also, the bill only is in effect when the Governor declares a State of Emergency.

I've always been on team Let it Rip as has Monty. But unlike you Derps in the BFI we were so based on some core logic.

That logic was once there was a vaccine and the people who would take it got access then let it rip thru the remaining population. Lets get the cull done and the herd immunity under way.

Due to the fact that a certain percent of society will not vax, then we just need them to catch it, those who get culled will pass and the rest will enjoy their 'immunity' for a few cycles and allow R to drop, as we have seen in prior cycles.

Thankfully 2A exists.

It mentions vaccinations once, but that document is impossible for me to comprehend. I'm pretty sure it doesn't include COVID concentration camps though.

https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...nt-2021-12-20/

Sure. This long into the pandemic it is pretty surprising that you are confusing just basic words like "herd immunity", but if you have no interest in learning what those words mean then that's no skin off my back.

Oh wow.

Ok lets engage then.

Sorry but you have no clue.

The scientists currently talk about Herd Immunity and its a casual reference to the term that DOES not mean no break thru infections nor no infections post vaccinations.

Understand that. Even when they are using the term for the vaccinated it does not mean zero.

what it DOES mean is reducing R down below 1 such that spread is no longer happening.

That can happen by having a big enough vaccinated population but it can also happen amongst the unvax'd once enough people have caught it. Thus why, even in the most unvax'd populaces you see massive spikes in the infected and then downturns despite nothing changing.

That has been described by the commentating scientists as a form of herd immunity in that community. All the most promiscuous with the virus (call them the early adapters) get it, get sick and die or not, but then become a sort of buttress against infection for the rest of the community.

They are walking amongst everyone, in lines and in seats beside you and they are still enjoying their protection and thus creating breaks or firewalls between the people who have not.


You, because of who you are, cannot accept this casual usage and instead have to say anyone is wrong who does not use the term like you do despite this being quite common usage.

You will see the same dynamic play out again a third time with omicron as it will spike, especially in low vax States and then fall despite no changes in those same States.

Hey I am at the point if you choose to not get vaccinated and get covid and die that is a personal decision. Hospitals are for vaccinated and surgeries not anti vax . That would not apply to children

Though I also believe if you are not donating your organs when you die you cant receive one

This approach is problematic in that if it is super infectious then of course their will be more mild cases, but there will be potentially more absolute deaths amongst those that are vulnerable, but the CFR number would go down due to the relativity of higher numbers of non vulnerable infections.

Ya there is little point to trying to keep society locked up to protect those who defy lockups and don't want them and want to get on with life?

Once everyone in Florida is vax'd who wants to be, why would you keep a lockup for those who don't want the vax and don't want to be locked up, if the hospitals can handle them as they get sick, come in and and some die?

Do you want to force lock ups on them for their own good?

You seem to have an issue, I think with not being political about the reality and maybe using words to play around it. But fact is for people in Florida, etc who refuse the vaccine and embrace getting back to normal life knowing the virus is circulating they are embracing the view of herd immunity and the cull. They know they will catch it and are fine taking their chances knowing a certain percent of them will die. They say 'lets get on with it'.

I am not suggesting keeping the unvax'd from getting care when I talk about the cull. I am talking about the ones who will die despite care. The vulnerable amongst them who want to take the chance dancing with the virus and accept a certain percent will die.

Once everyone is vax'd who wants to be the only reason to ever close society at that point is if the hospitals are over flowing again. Not to protect the unvax'd from themselves whether they want it or not. That is fascist if we are 'locking them in for their own good'.

Not sure what you are identifying as particularly problematic. Omicron and Delta prior seemed like an almost inevitability to touch everyone at some point. Just a matter of time. So everyone vax'd or not was going to be put to the test of Symptomatic, asymptomatic, sickly , survivor or dead. People are going to die from the Flu and even the common cold, we cannot stop it.

To me what matters is the hospital systems being able to cope and dispense care, not just to the covid infected. If the hospitals are coping then what else are we trying to prevent here?

The only other answer I can see is that more and better therapeutics (Pfizer pill) seem close so slowing a wave for that, if practical would be a good reason if the science seems close enough and promising enough.

Correct. You have indeed identified one thing that it is not. Good job!

False. R_t<1 is not the same thing as spread no longer happening. Just like your previous claim "virus ceases to then circulate in the population" this is just not true. It's not true in the short term (the virus is still spreading) but it particularly not true in the medium or long terms where we have a dynamic situation with declining levels of immunity, increasing transmittivity etc. You are correct that R_t has temporarily fluctuated less than 1 multiple times in the pandemic and this explains why we have ups and downs, but this isn't the same thing as herd immunity that can be "approached" as you suggest.


Requoting these as you didn't repeat your most egregious error, which was to conflate herd immunity with something to do with level of harm to those who get it. Nope. Nope nope nope. Sorry, herd immunity has nothing to do with the severity of the illness for those who get it.

Sure. I'm not willing to throw the basic right of access to healthcare out the window because I disagree with someone's choices. Very interesting that you are.

Im pointing out how the CFR stat can be flawed by lots of non vulnerable people being infected at the same time.

Nothing you seem to be saying here is a good summation of my position. No surprise there given your history.

Again the casual use of herd immunity, even in animals is not about no more cases or deaths. it is about a threshold by which the exposure is met (predator or virus) , those who are going to get caught do, those who get sick or die do, and the rest of the herd is the stronger members of the herd.

That does not mean the remaining herd cannot be hunted by other predators nor by other viruses, as they can be. But still the concept of herd immunity is discussed and we ALL KNOW what they mean.

Covid is exacting the same dynamic in human populace. Whether vax'd or not it is exposure, sickness or not, death or not, a healthier group left on the other side of exposure with some protections.

Again those protections do not have to be forever for the vax'd or unvax'd or prey animal. Another attack may come later and some running of the process may happen again but just with the prey animals discussing that process and the protections gained as herd immunity has been the norm of casual speech for ages.

My use of it here in this dynamic is neither incorrect nor out of the norm. It is what is going on with the unvax'd who are embracing getting the virus and rolling the dice with their outcome. They are embracing a herd immunity approach to this and saying 'let us catch it, and let us build our natural immunity and if some of die, so be it.'

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[QUOTE=Cuepee;57466590]Again the casual use of herd immunity, even in animals is not about no more cases or deaths. it is about a threshold by which the exposure is met (predator or virus) , those who are going to get caught do, those who get sick or die do, and the rest of the herd is the stronger members of the herd.[quote]Nope. Not close. You were getting close with the R_t<1 business, but you've gotten further away again.

Nope this isn't what herd immunity means.

I think it's importnt to take some nobody who after a supericial analysis of data that doesn't say very much concludes some nonsense about 'losing minds' to make some political claim about draconian measures, at least as seriously as some dry scientific investigation by experts.

Not saying you're doing that cuepea, I certainly hope not.