its amazing that we still are having very real debates around the country if whether or not the "hype" is real for a disease that has killed 250k people.

a city of 100k people in oklahoma just had their council vote 4-1 against a resolution that would have merely "encouraged" mask use. multiple people in the meeting spoke out against masks saying things like "elitist globalists" and "fear porn" and that they were "standing up for freedoms"..

The 'free market' at work.

I will be very interested to see how the typical 'free market' supporters take this if it becomes the norm across all airlines which I could quickly see it becoming ...


Qantas CEO says airline will make Covid-19 vaccination COMPULSORY for international travel

Sorry Ronny, but that is on you.

When you put together rambling weird, disjointed non sequitur questions you cannot expect others to decipher them and get you an answer.

Not trying to belittle. That is just a fact.

I looked back at your posts and cannot even guess what you think you asked that i did not answer as your posts are so unclear.

Simply bullet point your questions in clear and concise ways and we will try to address them.

Here I will even help,

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Adding to this, I am now almost 2 years over due on my yearly physical. My bad for not getting it done pre covid and now with Covid I will not go until lineups at the clinics are mostly gone.

Ronny seems to be arguing (and correct us if we are wrong Ronny) that if we let covid rip and simply downplayed the risks to others, people would still go for their check ups and elective surgeries, thus the 'other deaths' might be lower.

He seems to ignore that the result would certainly be that covid deaths would be much higher. i would not be going if there was more covid infection out there but the gov't played it down.

but lets see if he will take the time to elaborate??

I'm a free market guy, and I'm fine with that restriction.

I'm also fine with an airline that has a rule that you can fly with them only if you HAVE NOT taken the vaccine.

So am I but not with them landing. Not in the Uk anyway; and I expect most of the world.

But would you also be for a airport denying access to the plane with the non vacinated folks? I would

I am glad that you are fine with that as i think that is a fine restriction for any business (airline, restaurant, etc) to have too.

That said your second point does not follow the first.

Telling someone they cannot fly if they 'took the vaccine' or 'ate at McDonalds that day', 'or if they went to Church that day' or 'are religious', is not something that should be allowed in a free market context like this.

Do not make the mistake of trying to equivocate between a company 'setting safety standards' that can impact staff safety, jeopardize the airlines ability to operate, and cost them money, to what you say next which would be an arbitrary and meaningless rule for rules sake.

If i tell you cannot 'have went to church' or you cannot 'have got the vaccine shot' if you want to fly with us or dine with us, that is just trying to impose myself on your life choices when such choices have zero impact on my business.

it is the type of intrusions that wrongly lead to a belief that religious organizations should be able to prevent gays from dining in certain establishments and accessing certain services solely for being gay. And we would not want that mistake... would we?

The airport can also make their own rules (or the city or state wherein the airport resides).

I think a private company can have any stupid rules they want, as long as the stupid rule doesn't violate an actual law of the juristiction (e.g. Public Health or Civil Rights Laws, etc.)

I am fine with that too as long as we recognize society can have whatever rules they want too within the bounds they supply service too. So while you can choose to discriminate for any reason you want (blacks not allowed), they can also refuse your business an operating license within their jurisdiction under the same view.

You good with that?

Yes.

Why do I feel we are getting dangerously close to Roof Roadz here?

Wat?

Bless the sweet baby Jesus you Americans can now attend Superspreader Church services thanks to the Supreme Court

Lets see if Joel Oosten packs that arena this Sunday unless this only applies to New York?

Your health and the health of your close ones is what you got, pretty much literally. Everyone one this forum (afaik) lives in advanced and modern economies which are more than wealthy enough to survive severe economic burdens. There is no need for any of our governments to expect that anyone should sacrifice themselves for the economy (neither that of the state, that of the individual or that of 3rd parties).

Other than that, measures against a pandemic are chosen based on where your country / population are at in relation to the pandemic. If you catch good measures early, the intervention can be relatively small. But since infections can have an exponential growth, the escalation in measures is similarly rapid.

We know from several countries by known that the pandemic is severe enough to force health services into triage if it not controlled. It is a serious disease, when it hits urban areas hard we see increases in death rates comparable to the Spanish Flu, widely regarded as the worst pandemic outbreak in known history. Luckily we have better medicine and better knowledge, so we can impose better measures to curtail that.

Other than that I agree that fear-mongering is not necessary. It's a disease, it has a pattern and should be fought with rationality, medicine and science. Fear-mongering at this point will also really only affect the ones who are are already afraid of the disease, which is just adding on unnecessary stress.

Interesting data from Johns Hopkins:

https://web.archive.org/web/20201126...ue-to-covid-19

Cliffs:

Some research showed the article was later retracted due to being used by 3rd parties to mislead the public (which is why you found it on web-archive).

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/articl...ue-to-covid-19

What the **** is that word salad even saying?



lol npc12345

that's hilarious.

And the Covid leadership continues!

White House planning a packed season of holiday parties

good for them. Andrew, Gavin, mayor of Denver, etc see to be on board.

Rules for thee....

No, it isn't good for anyone. Neither is the mayor of Denver's idiotic actions.

In times like these it is very important for people in charge to be good examples. When they aren't, we end up with silly exchanges like this one and a public that might often feel ignoring recommendations is okay.

I think all these mayors and governors hurt the message more than Trump. Everyone knows it is Trump and expect it. When you have all these democrat politicians ignoring their own rules it is worse. Heck we had 3 more Californian politicians including the Mayor of San Fran ignoring their own protocols

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The most deaths in a day just happened. But new cases look to have plateaued.