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The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend)

02-24-2021 , 01:49 PM
If we can include a childs simulation toy gathering dust on a shelf then I'm in.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
FWIW, my position is more moderate. I consider my agnostic and open to new information that could inform my view, if presented. We just have not seen it.

Similarly I am agnostic on whether intelligent sentient Aliens species exist. I will reserve my judgement until there is actual evidence to consider and not just extrapolated theories, no matter how mathematically sound.


Now if you ask the betting man in me to 'guess' I peg the 'Aliens' at 70% probably and the God (Abrahamic) at less than 1%. But i do not consider my 'bets' my position as my positions on things are not predicated on bets.

Now if we combine those two things and allow for the Abrahamic God to be a misunderstood advanced Alien encounter on this planet that spawned a lifetime of fables trying to explain that, then, unexplainable I move my God possibility up to 10%.

(Edit at lagtight thx for the thoughtful reply, nuff said)
My pleasure.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
Monty, do you accept that to a person like d2, those who believe in religion are as deluded as those who believe Qanon CT's?

It is very easy to see the disdain and mocking replies we have for those who would espouse those Qanon theories out loud. We mock them with talk of lizard people. Certainly I realize if you are in the group who has accept CT's you will not see it charitably. Suddenly it will be mean and uncalled for and possible wrong to do. But the parallels cannot be escaped if you put yourself in the others shoes.
Great point, well made.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 02:00 PM
Don’t the Ángels count as wizards? There seem to be a plurality of them.
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02-24-2021 , 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
If you replace "religion" in that sentence with "fantastical preternatural claims completely unsupported by evidence" then my position starts to seem eminently more reasonable, although the meaning of the sentence hasn't changed at all.
You can rationalize your position with that word salad as you need, but your attitude and approach is pretty much dismissed by the vast amount of humanity and clearly you do not care about it. I have no doubt that your limited, extreme position is very reasonable to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
Monty, do you accept that to a person like d2, those who believe in religion are as deluded as those who believe Qanon CT's?
Those are his beliefs, correct. He will admit that openly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
It is very easy to see the disdain and mocking replies we have for those who would espouse those Qanon theories out loud. We mock them with talk of lizard people.
Their beliefs are generally much more specific (evil people eating babies in pizza places or prisons at the White House or Biden will never fly on a plane or will be arrested in public) and are easily disproven, so I do not put them in the same category as someone who has some general faith and uses that to help guide them in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
Certainly I realize if you are in the group who has accept CT's you will not see it charitably. Suddenly it will be mean and uncalled for and possible wrong to do. But the parallels cannot be escaped if you put yourself in the others shoes.
The parallels only exist for you and D2 to serve your agenda. I do not agree with you that they are parallel, but I understand believing them to be parallel is essential to your faith, and you are welcome to follow whatever faith you need in that regard as it is for the most part harmless. Hope that explained it better.

Last edited by Monteroy; 02-24-2021 at 02:15 PM.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 02:06 PM
Wizlets
Wizlings

???
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
You can rationalize your position with that word salad as you need, but your attitude and approach is pretty much dismissed by the vast amount of humanity and clearly you do not care about it. I have no doubt that your limited, extreme position is very reasonable to you.
I don't know how you define "vast", but let's not forget that half of all people are below average, and I'm pretty sure you know how dumb the average person is. So no, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuepee
Wizlets
Wizlings

???
Wizkids.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
You can rationalize your position with that word salad as you need, but your attitude and approach is pretty much dismissed by the vast amount of humanity and clearly you do not care about it. I have no doubt that your limited, extreme position is very reasonable to you.
I would counter that with the question that 'as the numbers of Qanon believers grow (and they have been growing exponentially) does the merits of the beliefs system thusly gain credibility?'


Meaning is it sufficiency of numbers that makes a theory legit or not, or is it scientific processes that operate regardless of number of adherents?

Again not being facetious. Scientology is now recognized as a religion. I suspect Qanon will seek such recognition, as it grows to gain the benefits of the that designation and I cannot see any legit way for the gov't to deny them (again Scientology) since the only basis seems to be 'a shared set of beliefs amongst sufficient numbers' and there is no required tie to anything resembling reality.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 02:22 PM
The answer to that is tricky, because if it grows it likely has to tone down the crazy stuff, kind of like how scientologists do not talk about aliens in general. If you look at the history of Kwanzaa you will see it was a bit different in its origins than it is today.

If eventually a religion exists that believes in the spooky deep state, but drops the nutty Pizzagate stuff - then maybe it can start to approach being more "mainstream," but it seems that is not really the direction those types of beliefs will head, because Pizzagate and public executions are the energy behind how the followers get drawn in, and as long as it is extreme, niche and easy to disprove then it has a pretty hard cap of how big it can really get.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 02:38 PM
Just to be clear you are talking about the hurdles to even wider scale adoption and not recognition as a religion, right?

As I think gov't take no position on the merits of the beliefs of a 'religion' and it is just a question of 'do enough adherents believe or not', to get that certification or gov't status. I think the proof of that is the most extreme elements of Christianity and Scientology still being on the books, even if most adherents restrict talking out loud about them.

The more extreme elements of the bible, Christianity, Islam, Scientology would certainly not stand out alongside some of the crazier stuff of Qanon as not belonging in that category.
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02-24-2021 , 02:44 PM
I have no doubt that some fringe stuff gets through, but for now I do not agree that Qanon will be given religion status by governments, and as such I cannot get on board your faith that Qanon is parallel to various mainstream religions.

If and when Qanon gets the tax benefits of being a religion you are welcome to come back to toss this post back at me. I will specifically predict that will never happen.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight

4. I often mock Evolution with the phrase "from the goo to the zoo to you”
Maybe if you didn’t mock and insult people, they’d be less liable to fire back with “sky daddy” quips? Seems like you’re missing an essential Biblical teaching here.

Last edited by Trolly McTrollson; 02-24-2021 at 03:20 PM.
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02-24-2021 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
I have no doubt that some fringe stuff gets through, but for now I do not agree that Qanon will be given religion status by governments, and as such I cannot get on board your faith that Qanon is parallel to various mainstream religions.

If and when Qanon gets the tax benefits of being a religion you are welcome to come back to toss this post back at me. I will specifically predict that will never happen.
I am confused. Do you think the gov't actually vets the beliefs of adherents when an application to be newly recognized religion is processed as i read that no such thing was done to make sure govt did not sanction or not beliefs.

I would struggle t believe Scientology could get through any rationale vetting of beliefs in todays world.

My understanding that is that criteria is that there is a certain set of shared beliefs, by enough mass people and for long enough that the gov't allows that is not just a 'fad'. And then you are a new religion.
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02-24-2021 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Don’t the Ángels count as wizards? There seem to be a plurality of them.
If there is a dictionary definition of wizards that would apply to angels, I'm kewl with calling them wizards.
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02-24-2021 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Maybe if you didn’t mock and insult people, they’d be less liable to fire back with “sky daddy” quips? Seems like you’re missing an essential Biblical teaching here.
1. Other than serial liars like you and Victor, who have I insulted in this Forum?

2. I try to avoid mocking people. I do mock certain ideas. I'm kewl with people mocking my ideas. I'd be fine with "Skydaddy" if it actually made any sense. "From the goo to the zoo to you" isn't factually incorrect. I can quote Evolutionists who have employed the terms "primordial goo" and "primordial soup." Zoo is a common term for a collection of animals, so that's not objectionable.
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02-24-2021 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
1. Other than serial liars like you and Victor, who have I insulted in this Forum?

2. I try to avoid mocking people. I do mock certain ideas. I'm kewl with people mocking my ideas. I'd be fine with "Skydaddy" if it actually made any sense. "From the goo to the zoo to you" isn't factually incorrect. I can quote Evolutionists who have employed the terms "primordial goo" and "primordial soup." Zoo is a common term for a collection of animals, so that's not objectionable.
Could you please clarify where god lives so I can be more factual with my mockery in future?
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02-24-2021 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
2. I try to avoid mocking people. I do mock certain ideas.
A distinction without any real difference. You go out of your way to mock and troll people and get huffy when it comes back on you. It seems very un-Christian.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
A distinction without any real difference. You go out of your way to mock and troll people and get huffy when it comes back on you. It seems very un-Christian.
Please cite an example in which I was "huffy" about being mocked. I generally only get huffy when people like you and Victor lie about me.

Mockers like d2_e4 are actually an asset to my agenda, since they have to resort to non sequiters in order to mock my ideas. And people like you have to resort to lying in order to mock my ideas.

I am grateful to d2_e4 for posting stuff about my religious beliefs, even in threads that have nothing to do with religion.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 04:30 PM
Non sequitur. /nitpick

Can you answer my question? You seem to have skipped it.
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02-24-2021 , 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Please cite an example in which I was "huffy" about being mocked.
cf, your last dozen or so posts. It’s perfectly fine to be upset, by the way., d2 is very clearly trying to rile you up. It’s just funny that you can’t be honest about the fact that you’re doing the same thing.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
cf, your last dozen or so posts. It’s perfectly fine to be upset, by the way., d2 is very clearly trying to rile you up. It’s just funny that you can’t be honest about the fact that you’re doing the same thing.
I plead nolo contendere.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
cf, your last dozen or so posts. It’s perfectly fine to be upset, by the way., d2 is very clearly trying to rile you up. It’s just funny that you can’t be honest about the fact that you’re doing the same thing.
Why would he be upset? He said clearly that people like e2 let him spread his own personal agenda. He knows e2's positions on the issue are kind or meaningless, and they give him the chance to speak to the world. He is not being subtle, he is literally telling you his strategy, and realistically he is true to his beliefs so he aint gonna be riled up by someone on the internet saying something snarky. I don't think he cares at all about riling up anyone else, its about spreading and sharing his beliefs. Seems pretty obvious. If he riles someone else up, that is a secondary bonus if that.

All the best.
The containment thread (aka Hello darkness, my old friend) Quote
02-24-2021 , 05:48 PM
standard troll is to claim people are upset. It's most upsetting
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02-24-2021 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Why would he be upset? He said clearly that people like e2 let him spread his own personal agenda. He knows e2's positions on the issue are kind or meaningless, and they give him the chance to speak to the world. He is not being subtle, he is literally telling you his strategy, and realistically he is true to his beliefs so he aint gonna be riled up by someone on the internet saying something snarky. I don't think he cares at all about riling up anyone else, its about spreading and sharing his beliefs. Seems pretty obvious. If he riles someone else up, that is a secondary bonus if that.

All the best.
Check it, bitches, I'm moving up in the alphabet, one letter at a time.
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