Hey Uke is calling a trans person a "biological" male/female offensive? If so, why? If not, forget I asked.

I would say it should generally be avoided in the sense that one should generally just call someone a trans man or whatever. The more accepted phrase, if it is truly needed, is "sex assigned at birth". That said, in these kinds of "trans debates" where people seem to want to talk about trans people's biology all the time, I both don't push back on this phrase and even adopt it myself, as - frankly - it can be a little bit exhausting getting some of the types on this forum to process what is happening if using the superior "sex assigned at birth".

:shrug:

To be fair, his English is consistently terrible.

He is right about that Product of a Christian School Education System

I dunno, he is clearly thinking very carefully about what pronouns to misuse after watching that Megyn Kelly video he posted in the other trans thread and cribbing her talking points.

Let's be real here. Nothing about the concept of trans is basic.

That's where the societal pushback comes from. You can be weird, and have every right to do so. You don't get to decide what everyone else thinks is weird and throw a hissy fit when they disagree.

This happens on both sides of any disagreement, obviously; but when you are in such a miniscule group as the transgender community, it's going to feel that much more disproportionate when the opposing group speaks up.

Then, when you take it to the next level by making the teenage daughters of these "transphobic" people feel bad or insecure when some dude who has decided to be a lady rolls in and roflstomps them in what was supposed to be fair competition, you're an utter fool if you don't think the pushback will increase.

You've now turned a mom or dad who probably would've just left it at, "Yeah, that's weird, but whatever makes them happy" into someone who is defending their own family and values.

The alphabet mafia has channeled all sorts of energy into being a very loud and very obnoxious advocacy group, and good for them for standing up for what they believe in. But your average Joe and Jane do have a breaking point.

The fact that you have people ITT claiming that sports need to be decoupled from schools is just icing on the cake. You honestly can't see the forest through the trees here. Do you think it will help your standing in society to be known as the social movement that killed college sports? Daniel Danielle wasn't allowed to crush the women's division, so now nobody gets to play. Great success!

What's the difference between "biological" and "sex assigned at birth"? Don't they both mean the same thing? Honest questions.
If one were to say that they wished to not see trans people discriminated against and wished for equality for them, but didn't regard a trans man/woman as real men/women due to their being born into a different sex , then why would that be offensive? And by "real" I mean literally, not in a derogatory sense.

Yay! Finally got there.

Yah, this is definitely the narrative of the transphobes, and those who are using it for their own political purposes. I'm hoping that you're just one of those who has been led on to believe this nonsense by the latter group, rather than a transphobe yourself, but either way your recent posts sure aren't a good look.

Are there people who take the extreme stances you claim? Sure, there is a small minority. But using that as an excuse to constantly **** on trans people is something that happens way to frequently these days, and is something you should be rejecting rather than embracing.

This. It seems kind of a waste of time to be picking at it, and I don't think it's indicative of anything more than poor grammar (apparently "Product of a Christian School Education System") and not being bothered to look things over. Meh.

I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of what age is best but I would agree that college sports needs to be separated but not kindergarten hopscotch so there is obviously a line. I would also agree with you that the voices of the other athletes do matter especially at higher levels and those opinions should hold weight and casting those opinions out as transphobic rhetoric is ignorance to that situation and possibly worsens any mutual respect - I think it's certain that it's done that.

My issue is the some of the laws that have been passed which have been almost trolling in nature that negatively affect only trans people and is coming from a place of vitrial have real consequences and needs to stop, imo. I think there is a big difference between the sports side of things that I would mostly agree with you on and the other issues that appear much more sinister.

is he?

This.

That comment makes you trans phobic according to many in the community. One needs to just say I am a girl now I want to compete according to many

A majority of these so called laws protect children from castration and mutilations my a healthcare system focused on profit and crazed gender affirming parents like Uke

:

I'd like to see your math on this, because most of the laws I've seen have been pretty ham-handed and overreaching. Admittedly, much like the most extreme voices on the left will be highlighted to fearmonger on the transgender issue, I know the most extreme laws are going to get most of the press. But it seems to me that laws around this should mostly be unnecessary in the first place.

So you believe children should be allowed gender affirming surgery? Lets leave the drugs out of it

That's a pretty open-ended question. If we're talking about young children, my instinct would of course be no unless I'm shown a compelling reason there should be exceptions (and I can't imagine what they'd be). Teenagers would be much more situation and age-dependent. Of course laws tend to take all the nuance out of that, and as I said, most laws I've seen are much more far-reaching than this.

Do you think we should allow some younger teenagers to have sex, smoke, get a tattoo, drive , join the military, vote etc . Personally I know of no current laws that forbid an adult from getting gender affirming surgery.

Do you realize most kids that identify as trans either grow out of it or end up gay or lesbian. I did see one podcast with Joe Rogan were the host Matt Walsh stated that suicides are higher in kids that regret transitioning than the overall trans community which also according to Uke has a higher rate than normal. Though I hear that the rate is climbing big in teenage girls as well

I'm not aware of any laws against "younger teenagers" having sex or getting tattoos. 16 is a pretty common age for driving, 16 in the military is also allowed with parental permission. Voting is the only one you have to be 18 for, and there's been discussion in some jurisdiction about allowing that. So, I'm not sure where you were going with that question.

Neither do I (although it wouldn't shock me at this point if there were). Is there a reason for this strawman?

No, I didn't realize that, and I'd be interested to see your sources.

OK. And Matt Walsh's sources are...?

Transgender care targeted into adulthood in these states

That was a pretty bad strawman.

Well, firstly note that while one's biology is typically dichotomous, to be complete it is more of a spectrum, thinking about for instance intersex people. So one might have a "sex assigned at birth" given, for instance, the absence of external male anatomy but have something like an internal teste with testosterone numbers or whatever.

But I think a perhaps larger issue about chosen language that authenticates trans people's lived experience. So you talk about "real" men, which gives a connotation that trans men are thus "not real" or perhaps "fake". It's fine that you want to take this in a non-derogatory sense, but I think if we are choosing which language we are using it is better to steer towards language that isn't close to derogatory.

I have no idea who his sources are. It's one of the reasons I stated were I heard it .

[QUOTE=Bobo Fett;58152518]I'm not aware of any laws against "younger teenagers" having sex or getting tattoos./QUOTE]

Maybe it's different in Canada, but in the US no one under 18 can get a tattoo unless their parent is with them giving permission. In some states it is not allowed even with parental permission, and in some states the age requirement is higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_..._United_States

I asked several pages back in this thread if anyone had real experience with kids today who are dealing with the situation of trans people participating in sports. The response seemed to be no and that it didn’t matter. For me, it matters a lot - my perspective changed a lot when having to address these situations firsthand.

Um, OK...thanks for sharing?

I'm still not sure what your point was asking me if I'm OK with a bunch of things that are legal, why the strawman about laws forbidding an adult from getting gender affirming surgery, and no wiser as to your source for "Do you realize most kids that identify as trans either grow out of it or end up gay or lesbian."

Correct.

The point is you do not let kids do all those other things as they are not adults and their brains and not formed fully so why in the hell would we let them castrate or mutilate themselves

Remember all of the kids that were killing themselves throughout history? That's now stopped now that kids can change their sex.