seek help

You believe what you want .
Leah Thomas is a cheat and his records are garbage .
His lack of respect for the woman in the locker rooms is disgusting as is the fact he doesn't realize he is disrespecting women by competing against them .
When Rile Gaines shoes the courage to speak out the response is violence to her that is disgusting

I don’t think so, but you never know. When I played in high school and college, we often played mixed men / women. I can tell you that although the men were better at comparable levels, the gap is not as much as posters here seem to think think. Sure raw power is super important in tennis, but speed, technique and hand-eye coordination are as well.

So I’m just not buying that a teenage boy could beat the women’s number one in the world. And certainly not hundreds.

Uke is they

Believing that trans women shouldn't compete in NCAA D1 sports is a reasonable enough political opinion.

But deliberately, repeatedly, and knowingly misgendering a trans woman is disgusting, transphobic, and demonstrates how little respect for the basic dignity of trans people you hold.

Shame on you.

Respect is a two way street . I'll treat any trans gender individual with respect when they do the same towards women.
You actually think Leah Thomas believes it's a fair competition
Not a chance he is a cheat and what he does hurts the Trans movement. The problem is folks are scared to speak out .

You keep believing in your trans religion . You keep believing in mutilating and castrating children .

I couldn't care less if someone called me he, she, they, or it.

I would not consider it disgusting or disrespectful in any way. That's because I realize that I don't decide what people call me.

This may bet shocking, but I didn't even choose my own name! It was chosen by people who held me captive like a slave for 18 years.
I was even named after one of my captors, who was the person I hated more than any other being in the universe until he finally went to hell a few years ago (if there is any justice in the universe anyway).

And guess what, it's now 35 years after my escape from captivity, and I still haven't changed my name! You know why? Because IDGAF. It is not important what people call me.

And if someone called me something I didn't like in a forum I would surely never read, I wouldn't even know it had ever happened!

When did people forget what children my age learned in kindergarten? Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.

I am not inherently worthy of anyone's respect, and no one is inherently worthy of my respect.
If one person believes that another is unwilling respect, he has no obligation to show any.

I have no problem with trans people. My favorite local band is headed by a trans woman, and I am surely one of their biggest fans, having seen them play at least 10 times in the last 3 years. I went to a tiny solo show she performed recently and told her how amazing the set was. I find this person deserving of my respect, and I use the name she chose for herself a few years ago. I also use feminine pronouns when referring to her to other music fans. It makes no difference to me what genitalia she was born with or what names and pronouns she used to go by.

The difference is that she is not advancing her career by cheating.
Becoming a woman is not helping her music career in any way.

In general I don't particularly respect sports competitions, but I do particularly disrespect 'Lia' for the same reason as the poster you accused of being disrespectful.
Well, of course he was being disrespectful, that was the point.

It seems to be claiming its childhood was like slavery and it doesn't care about gender pronouns despite it making many posts to the contrary in both regards.

I'm certain I never claimed that I was not held captive against my will as a child (after having also been brought into being without my consent).

I also have said several times in the past that I don't care what pronoun is used to refer to me. The only thing I can recall saying I cared about regarding gender pronouns is that it was often particularly confusing to use the word 'they' in reference to a singular person as it can be very ambiguous who is being referred to.

Overall I think the very best idea would be to get rid of the words 'he' and 'she' completely. 'It' could be used, but I think it would be more clear to come up with brand new non-gendered pronouns to be used only when referring to humans.

I'll put aside all the other nonsense for the moment, as I'd like to get some clarification on this point as it seems pretty central to your recent rants.

I haven't followed this story as closely as you have, so I'm wondering if I've missed something. Did Lia compete under false pretenses? I thought everyone knew she was trans, and that NCAA rules permitted her to compete in the women's races, but maybe I'm misinformed.

Cool. Why do you think that's relevant to the topic at hand? Your experience is likely to be a lot different than that of a group that are constantly being ridiculed, discriminated against, and subject to hate by significant segments of society.

I personally would be perfectly fine if social conventions allowed us to refer to things like chilrob as "it". Like I could imagine talking to it for 5 seconds and trying to teach it something basic; matrix multiplication, what's a determinant etc and thinking "well it's clearly incapable of understanding a word of this." But for basically the same reason, it's views on gendered pronouns are not really relevant to the rest of us "non its" that prefer he, she etc.

When you're so unwilling to accept trans people as fully human that you're ready to jettison basic components of the English language. Amazing.

lozen is lying as always.

It was in reply to uke's rant about Lia being "misgendered", as if lozen calling Lia "he" in a poker forum was actually going to cause harm.

I also have endured plenty of ridicule and hate in my life, and not for something I chose to do.

Lia didn't have to fool anyone, the cheating was out in the open and understood as such by almost everyone.

It's very odd how you think math skills are relevant here, but in case it somehow matters, I was way ahead of every other student in my class in math while growing up, so much that in elementary school I sat in the corner of my room studying a high school algebra book. In high school I took college calculus and scored 800 (max score) on the SAT, several years before the scores started to be deliberately inflated.

Anyway, 'misgendering' someone is nothing like calling someone the n-word. The n-word is offensive, "he" is not.

It absolutely is offensive to be misgendered. Even for young cishet guys it can be hurtful to constantly be referred to as a girl or a princess. But I'd guess that you didn't have that experience growing up with all the slavery you say you've endured.

Who here has denied them as fully human ?

Yes the NCAA allows them to compete in the women's division. Sadly they caved to the religion . Just because its allowed doesn't make it right

Let's ignore science

You are attacking something I didn't say. What I said was the word "he" in general is not offensive, and nothing at all like the n-word.

How much chance do you think that someone referring to Lia as "he" on this forum will cause even any hurt feelings in the person referred to?

I don't remember ever being called a girl or a princess growing up, but definitely a sissy and a f-g, among similar things.

And again, I support language changes that would prevent anyone from being misgendered, by getting rid of gendered pronouns.

I am not sure if this was in response to me or someone else, but I think I'm the only one who recommended changing the English language. It has nothing to do with accepting trans people has human, but would change the language to make it impossible to misgender someone as well as changing the historical sexism imbedded in most old languages.

Just because we can't draw a direct line from poster X misgendered someone to person Y was harmed, doesn't mean no harm is being done. Making a habit of misgendering people in any kind of public forum is simply encouraging more of that behaviour, and it would also be pretty shitty for other transgender people to have to read. For them, it would be just one more example of a place where they are being disrespected.

I'm sorry to hear that, but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Then it's not cheating, end of story, and that's not debatable. If the rules of a competition allow something, then by definition, doing said thing can not be cheating. You may not agree with it, you may think it shouldn't be allowed, but it's not cheating. And that makes lozen's "anger", or whatever he holds towards Lia, completely misplaced. Said anger should be directed at the NCAA.

That was obviously not a thoughtless misgendering or an attack on trans people in general, it was a deliberate attack on a single person.

Did you really not notice that I said that in response to Bryce saying he thought I didn't have the experience of being called names when growing up? Why didn't you scold Bryce by saying that whether or not I was called names had nothing to do with the subject at hand?

Would it make you feel better if we called it "angling" instead of cheating? I guess that should be understood on a poker forum. There are some poker players who do lots of things and nearly everyone hates because they do any scummy thing to try to get an edge, yet there is nothing that can be done because the actions don't technically break any rules that are specified in the rulebook. Lia is a swimming angle-shooter.

How about we simply not engage in blatant dishonesty? Lia has been open about her status, the accusations of cheating are flagrant lies. You can disagree about whether transgender athletes should be allowed without smearing Lia Thomas.

This. While the accusation of cheating is just silly - clearly she broke no rules - choosing to “disrespect” Lia Thomas by deliberately and repeatedly misgendering her is, simply, transphobic. There is no excuse for it. You can disagree with the rules, you can believe she should have chosen not to compete despite the rules, but attacking her very personhood and identity and stomping all over it with the misgendering is ridiculous.

Be better than this, lozen.

Of course it is. Deliberately misgendering someone is a rejection of their very identity, of course that is going to be offensive, and of a similar level of disrespect to a white person calling a black person the N word.

Just. Don’t. Do. It.

Blatant dishonesty is Leah believing he is a female athlete .
Dishonesty is removing the NCAA records from the women that achieved them
Dishonesty is taking the spot from an athlete that lost out on the opportunity to be all American because Leah knocked her out of the top 16.

When you knowingly disrespect the sport and women's rights I will not respect you