To all the people mad, READ THIS POST. The DOJ only approved this.

Because Subs they've explicitly said they only have approval to allow players to spend their FPPs on stellar rewards and cash bonuses.

This is quoted out of context.

i don't think greed is the factor here..
and "keeping" is debatable...
we don't know what Stars' options are right now
with regard to the DoJ and FBI up their @ss..
but i'd also like to add that i don't think anyone is unjustified in their disappointment/ or anger.

what if the DoJ had said "they (American players) can cash out their money, but not get any items or bonuses." Stars could have lobbied for players' right to retain most of their fpp value by cashing out... DOJ: 'fine, you have one month'...

obv speculation.. but i guess that's the point.
it's all speculation..
i think attacking them and calling them a greedy, shameful behemoth is ultimately baseless. i also think that the above hypothetical situation might have included the obv stipulation of 'not introducing anything new to US players post April 15th'... i.e. New $2 bonuses for 190fpps!

Since I know Stars reps read all these comments:

You guys & gals have been great. If/when I can play here again I will in an instant.

All of the defending of Stars on this is unbelievable yet I'm sure that's exactly what they expected.

They keep untold millions of our money and idiots everywhere praise them for being fair and generous, drowning out the few bright people who see through the scam.

Now that's what I call a well-run company!

Because all the evidence points to them trying to scam their players in all the years they've been trading.

I'm glad there are bright people like you out there who are able to spot these things.

Can you confirm to me whether or not the moon landings were faked?

Exactly. It is brilliant when you think about it. We are poker player, we only look out for 1 person, and are happy as long as we get ours. Stars knows that if you please the majority that's enough.. Now, the other sites do too. Starting to think FT just sitting back and watching is the smartest move they have ever made.. Now they know what they can get away with.

Its almost like stars decided to pay every person back, besides 1 random guy. He wouldn't stand a chance of getting any attention while everyone else is running to the bank. Now, to everyone saying "lol at the complaints" I'm sure you would be fine with being this one person. Also to the "could be worse crowd" how much of your roll would you all be OK with giving up if the sites said your only getting a certain % of it? 50%, 10%, 1% ect..

1 more lol at the people thinking the DoJ decided to read, understand, and force people to use the stars VIP system to cashout their points. "The DoJ only want's you buying cash bonuses, nothing less than $25, and at the $/fpp rate that 2+2 decided they were worth.."

I think your missing the point. No one is going to care if they lose $5 while they are thinking they are lucky to get there 10s of thousands. The majority isn't going to care when 80% of people get top value for their points as long as they don't fall into that 20%.

This does not mean its OK to keep the $5 from millions of accounts. Just like you would not notice/really care if I took .03c out of your bank account. That doesn't mean its OK and if I do that to every bank account in America its going to add up huge.

The other side is just the people that ran good. They were able to cashout at close to full value, or they never had enough points for it to really matter. They got payed in full, and can't understand why your complaining when sites like FT have not done a thing. Its totally irrelevant that you decided to play on Pokerstars because they were the best and you trusted them. It "could be worse" because you could of chose to play on FT / UB instead.

Semi-grunching here.

I'm really surprised that people aren't angrier about this.

(a) We can't read much into the "this is all the DOJ allowed" defense, because it's highly plausible that Stars negotiated this deal.

(b) Some people are claiming that FPPs are not worth 1.6c unless you were Supernova--that's just false. FPPs were redeemable for good value at much lower levels (not to mention the high-value tournaments and satellites).

Full disclosure: the difference between what I got and the 1.6c rate is $600, so that's probably affecting my view of things.

There's always a lot behind the scenes we can't know, and now more than usual. But this reinforces my view that Stars is a heck of a lot better at the appearance of customer service than actual customer service.

All my best,

--Nate

Somebody claims they're being scammed, I respond and somehow I've missed the point? Not really a good starting point for the logic you inevitably follow up with.

FPPs are a bonus not a right. FPPs are not money either. There is no segregated account with money reserved for FPPs. Losing something you could have had is not a real loss because you never really had it. If you take something I own, that's theft. If I take an opportunity away from you, well (dare I say it) that's poker.

Great, I'm glad we don't have to pay taxes on the value of our fpps, right?

Hint: We did.

MicroBob makes a lot of good points. I applaud stars in the way they have handled the situation. I do think that a conversion rate for all fpps earned should be done. For those saying .016 you're crazy unless you're a supernova. It should be calculated at the rate your level gets their cash bonuses.

lol @ FPP's are a bonus not a right.

They were given in lieu of rakeback. If Stars said FU everyone, there's no form of rakeback here, go to Full Tilt if you want that," they would be the #2 site instead of #1.

The points had real value, and it didn't take a genius to figure out that value.

Stars did the minimum to give the appearance to the DOJ and their remaining non-US players that they were doing us right with the FPP situation. After that minimum, they're stealing the rest.

What if you have been a supernova for every month since they introduced the program except for April, 2011. What do you deserve then?

FYP

What exchange rate did you use in your conversion?

Why not say that we should be able to buy things from the FPP store that we would have been able to get, or barring that redeem the FPPs for comparable value?

They didn't allow me anything for a stellar reward 97.5% earned. Do you have a link where they said that they would pay?

.016 which is the conversion I have used for the fifty or so bonuses I have converted over the years. I took a screenshot at the end of the year showing my total points in my account and would need to explain these if I were ever audited. If I were a person who horded fpps, I would have a lot of explaining to do if I never paid on them.

You can have an argument over what the real value of these points is and what should be paid out, but you can't argue that they have no value.

To people complaining about any of this-shut up already.
Stars has been the clear leader hear among the three that were shut down. They are doing everything they can-and unlike some other sites I believe them. There actions speak louder then words.
Yes, some of us will lose some value, some more than others, but it's way better than some other sites have been doing.
The DOJ has alot to do with what Stars can do here.


+1 to Stars.

Regardless of what you think of the technical legal status of FPPs is before they're spent, there was clearly a strongly implied promise from PokerStars during the entire period that they were being earned that (a) they would not expire, (b) they could be cashed in at a time of our choosing, and (c) they had an approximate value of 1.6 cents. This is not just for supernovas; even silver stars could buy tournament tickets at that rate and FPP tournaments with cash prize pools also reflected this. Obviously PokerStars could've discontinued the FPP program at any time and there probably wouldn't have been much we as players could have done about it legally, but it's absurd to act like this isn't a pretty sleazy bait-and-switch if they're not doing everything in their power to estimate their true value, unless evidence is provided that Stars is literally being prevented from doing so by the DOJ. Semantic arguments like saying they only had "potential" value might be valid if we were arguing legality in court, but we're not. We're talking about what's fair to players and asking Stars to do what's right, not just what they're legally obligated to do or what's the bare minimum they need to do to satisfy some people.

Paying tax on something you don't own is just dumb if you ask me. I'm assuming that you paid tax on money you received after exchanging your points for something of value?

You're arguing that you should have got/be getting more for your points. I'm saying you got/are getting what they're worth which is what you got/are getting for them.

You forgot the part about business as usual even after being forced to stop trading in the US market. I'll mark that down as d) for you.

If I move out of the U.S., I could get 1.6 cents of value for my points tomorrow. As it is, I can only get 1 cent. That's pretty clearly not getting what they're worth by any definition other than "because we say so". The shutting down of U.S. play has nothing to do with the value of FPPs I earned prior to that time, given that Stars clearly has the ability to make good on that value if they wanted to.