That chat doesn't show any collusion whatsoever. It only shows one player unilaterally softplaying another player. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there could very well have been tactical reasons why he may have wanted to softplay. I also realize now that if you did some chatting of your own in that tournament, you may have ended up in 3rd place because you pissed the guy off.

Santa, collusion isn't the only form of cheating and as I already explained to you there is nothing "tactical" about keeping a cripple stack alive 3 handed when you and the other player have big stacks. It's either cheating for one reason or another, or an INCREDIBLY stupid thought process. Given he SAID IN CHAT he gave the guy chips, I'm forced to assume it's the former. And no I didn't piss anyone off, I'm usually multitabling and rarely type anything into chat if ever.

Is it your mission in life to seek out every thread about Bovada and defend them tooth and nail or something?

Based solely on your whining in these forums, if I knew I was playing you at a table, I would do whatever it takes to bust you first. It would have nothing to do with the other player, it would be 100% directed towards you. I can't believe for a second that you aren't one of those whiny bitches who sits there talking nonstop in the chat window.

Actually, I wouldn't just bust you, I'd slowroll you first.

I didn't examine the details of this hand, but keeping a small stack alive to preserve a favorable bubble factor with another stack is absolutely legitimate and "tactical".

XaQ it's a shame you will never live out your little fantasy because you're too bad at poker to ever make a final table with me. Sorry bud

I'm a professional player and don't have time or reason to type into chat save the rare occasion a chop is taking place. If you believe standing up against a site stealing player money is "whining" then I have nothing left to say to you. Believe what you want.

BS, we're talking about MTTs here, top 3 is already ITM. I almost included "given standard MTT payouts" in that sentence but figured it was self explanatory. Guess not...

This can also apply with big money jumps for ICM reasons which happen a lot at MTT final tables. Not defending the guys' chat though.

This could be a good thing to say to soften up an opponent in a heads up match...."just wanted to let you know i folded some winning hands to give you chips".

In fact I might use this one just for kicks.

softplay is cheating for any reason.

is this your first year on the scene or something?

it says in any rule book that softplay is cheating and doesn't give any scenarios where it is not cheating

It certainly is possible, I'm def not claiming to be 100% certain that cheating occurred.

lol@some clown bragging about being a pro poker player on a poker site.
have fun in your donkaments.

your lack of common sense is getting clearer.

Hey troll, welcome to my thread. Feel free to dump your verbal diarrhea all over here like you do anywhere else you post.

I don't know where you get that I was bragging from, I was explaining why I wouldn't waste time typing into chat when I'm working, since people keep bringing that up. Does it upset you when someone else tells you they make a living from poker? Strike a personal cord, perhaps?

Apparently it is your first year on the scene. The softplay that the "rule book" refers to is a form of collusion. Softplaying to get a tactical advantage is certainly not a form of collusion and certainly is not their definition of softplaying. Simply because I use the term softplay doesn't automatically mean that it is synonymous with the "rule book's" definition of softplay. Poker isn't just about cards, it is also about tactics. I'm sure it's something you'll learn in time.

Santa, are you really still here defending the notion that it makes ANY sense to keep a tiny stack alive 3 handed when the two other players both have big stacks? Given typical MTT payouts, to do so would be such an ICM disaster it's beyond all logical comprehension.

I guess you do have a point in that if you're capable of such horrific strategy, the other guy might be as well. I highly doubt it but... anything is possible.

Well it certainly worked for the guy who beat you. That's what you've been crying about for the past month after all. I think that you've somehow missed the other posts in this thread that agree with me.

no i actually find it hilarious when someone says it in a condescending way as though people on a poker site should be impressed.
if someone asks what you do for a living and you say poker that's fine. when you're pissed at someone and say i play poker for a living you're too stupid to ever make a final table in some ****ing donkament you sound like the worthless tool that you are.

the funny part is when you respond to people you really think you're owning them even though you repeatedly get shat on. if bodog is so awful stop playing there. we all pick sites we play on for a variety of reasons.what i don't do is play on a site i think lies cheats and steals the way you do. i also comprehend what theft is.


as far as this particular topic- obviously it's possible there is collusion. but it would be an incredibly stupid way to go about it.
why draw attention to yourself like that?
it's more likely the guy just became friendly and didn't think he was doing anything wrong (even though he was) and a small possibility he thought strategically keeping the shorter stack around would benefit him. i'm not saying he would be correct, but if the biggest stack was a scared timid player it would be.

more likely than anything he sounds like a dumb fish.i do agree bodog should look into it and be more transparent about the process. years ago i had a guy on bodog ask for my aim and once we got on aim try to collude with me. i emailed it to bodog and asked them to look into it, and the guy was still playing for a few weeks which really pissed me off. he finally disapeered from the site after a few more months but they wouldnt tell me ****.

It's hard to decide which part is my favorite. Is it that he's a poker pro who doesn't know how hand histories work? Or is it that he's a poker pro whining about a $13 MTT and the total sum of about $100? Or is it that he throws up all over anything Bovada related trying to make his case. Or is it all of the above?

all the pros play 13 dollar mtts. everyone knows there's a huge jump after the ten dollar mtts.

The other posts agreeing with you aren't taking into account any of the specifics of this case. I figured by now you at least would have read the scenario and seen how wrong you are.

I didn't say it in a condescending way, I said it to prove a point. The comment about him never making a final table was entirely unrelated to the next paragraph about why I don't chat. I don't think there's anything particularly brag-worthy about being a poker pro, unless you get obscenely rich from it. But once again it's clear again how you're projecting your own insecurities into the situation. Maybe you could get some coaching so you won't fly into a tizzy every time someone mentions being pro? I mean, I don't know how you can even cope with posting in these forums when so many of us play for a living.

Right, I get shat on by a guy who can't even use proper grammar and likely never graduated from high school. That'll be the day.

I like certain things about Bodog, I just think they've got a few issues they really need to sort out. Unfortunately being in the USA right now, Bodog is one of the only viable options for online play, as you well know.

Finally we agree on something. I do think this is more than likely the case.

I've had PokerTracker and HEM (and various upgrades of both) since they were released and have compiled large hand history databases on multiple computers. I just decided not to bother with trying to extract them from Bodog once it went anonymous, I didn't see any point. I've never needed to look at any of my hand histories from them until this incident. I don't see why that's amusing to you, other than your apparent desire to jump on the Zoo troll bandwagon and find fault with anything I say.

The amount of money isn't the issue, I would complain equally if I felt I were cheated out of $5 or $10,000. The buy-in doesn't mean anything either. I play every O8 MTT I can from random $10s to weekend $215 majors right up to the $5000 WSOP. I would love it if Stars and the old Full Tilt were still here and I could limit myself to bigger buy-ins, but unfortunately there just isn't much volume left to choose from in our current climate. Even with the handful of cash games around I need to fill monitor space with MTTs or I feel lazy and bored.

What Bovada related things have I "thrown up all over?" I've gotten involved in one other thread here about them not giving a player his rightful money. Exaggerate much? Go back to the microstakes forum kid.

It's absurd for you to assume that you know what specifics any other person taking into account. I've read the scenerio. The scenario is comprised of one screenshot with nothing else to put it in perspective.

It's kind of bizarre that you would go through the trouble of creating your one screenshot melodrama without bothering to download the handhistories that would have answered at least some important questions, despite the fact that posters immediately told you the importance of looking at the handhistories. Without the handhistories you don't even know if #9 was just talking out of his ass. Of course not knowing what actually happened hasn't stopped you from proclaiming that you were cheated, harrassing support personal, and flaming anyone who questions or suggests possible alternatives to your assumptions.

Without the handhistories and with your bad attitude you should have left 2+2 out of it and kept this issue between yourself and Bovada support.

lol if you have to multi quote 5 posts from 3 different people to defend yourself, you're doing something wrong

I'm pretty sure I said more about it in other posts but maybe not enough. I'll describe it for you now in full. I was the CL with 140kish at 2k/4k blinds, the guy who claims to have dumped had 130k, and the short stack had 10k. Now does it make sense why I don't think it could be a tactical move? The only time that could be a good tactical move 3 handed is if you're a big chip leader vs a tough medium stack and a short stack.

I had heard that you could get Bovada hand histories, but had no clue about the specifics. I assumed you could request them from support if needed like on every other poker site I've ever played on, and figured if support couldn't handle it I would then review them myself. I wrote them about the issue right away because I had faith in them at the time to take care of the situation, but they never even replied. I wrote them again a week later to ask again and found out that they wouldn't show me the hand histories, and that I couldn't download them anymore. Careless on my part? Sure. But at the time I never would have guessed there was such a strict rule was in place for something as basic as hand histories. If I had known they showed everyone's hole cards I definitely would have tried to check sooner, but alas I did not.

I'm not "harassing support" I am asking them a question that they don't seem capable of comprehending. A site's support should be able to answer simple questions. I'm not going to give up asking just because they don't grasp English very well or whatever the problem is.

I also haven't flamed anyone who didn't flame me first, I have generally been very cordial. Why would I leave this issue off 2+2 when most of the people in this thread who aren't only here to troll me after they got butthurt in an unrelated thread (like you) are on my side?

Coincidentally (or not!) all three of them are the previously referred to butthurt crew from another unrelated Bovada thread in the Zoo. They're only here to troll me and vent their rage. Notice two of them only showed up here in the last day.

i showed up bc people claimed all you do is trash bodog on here so i looked on your other posts.

i think bodog does need to be more transparent with regards to collusion investigations so unlike the other thread i don't completely disagree with you here, but while this could be collusion it is no sure thing.

oh and now i didn't graduate from high school-are you actually 12 years old? even a clown like you could graduate hs.

lmao@ the 13 dollar mtt pro.

Perhaps the dialogue would be a little more productive if you hadn't jumped into that other thread calling people "creatons" (my best guess is that you meant cretins).

We get plenty of name calling all over these forums and the Internet in general, but it seems like there is something special about Bovada threads that brings out the worst in some people. Not placing blame here as there's plenty to go around, but don't complain about it if you're going to engage in it yourself.

I just love how in an earlier post you said that you had never heard about keeping someone in the game being used as a tactic and now you are purporting to be an expert on the matter. You're trying to tell me of the only possible reason it would be used when, in fact, you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

All you are really doing in the above statement is telling me what the stack sizes were at a certain point in the tournament. That snapshot of the stack sizes really doesn't mean much considering that without the handhistories you have absolutely no idea at what point in time #9 might have folded any winning hands.

The 24/7 rule is common knowledge; and that the handhistories show the hole cards has been very widely reported. It is surprising that someone who describes himself as a professional poker player wouldn't even know the fundamentals of the site nor have ever before had the desire to download any handhistories. That you didn't download the handhistories is a mistake 100% of your own doing.

You started this thread. Posters immediately expressed the need for handhistories, the need of which should have been obvious to you anyway. You didn't bother providing them. When you start a thread, some responsibilities come with that.

Support told you that they couldn't provide you with any information. That's common for all sites to at least some degree. But like a child you over and over demanded answers for questions that are clearly out of a support person's pay grade and are business decisions that the site has no obligation to explain to you. You seem oblivious that on Bovada, like any other site, you are a guest. You acted like you owned the site. If you continue to harangue support you are probably just going to get your account closed, and rightfully so. Of course in your mind that will just be more evidence that Bovada/Bodog are thieves.

I've been posting in this thread for the last month. The other thread that you mention just started yesterday. So I don't know how you figure that I came here from that thread to "vent my rage". Mostly the early posters in this thread were either telling you to get handhistories, telling you to report to Bovada, or agreeing with me that there could conceivably be an alternative. You ended up reporting your suspicions in the most juvenile way conceivable to Bovada and also failed to get the handhistories. Your current lack of support isn't from outside agitators, it's from your own lack of good judgement.

the funny thing is if bodog banned the 13 dollar mtt pro tomorrow for his libelous claims and just for being a royal pita in general he would swear they are out of line and scamming him.