more work that intended, really?

lol

Yeah your salty ass keeps commenting with nothing but negative ****...get out of this thread dolt

And yes I didnt think I would have to take a pic to prove such a thing, honor system works good enough for me. Apparently not for everybody

Sharing your username and IP address with people you don't really know is a very very bad idea.

This +1000

Sent from my Mi 4i using 2+2 Forums

I have the strong feeling that SN and SNEs see themselves as "company partners" instead of "costumers". There are many companies that do not ask their costumers (which you really are) for their opinion. I would love when my favorite coffee shop would offer Chai Latte as the other shop does, which I don't like too much because of the ambient, but they don't change or offer it anyway.

Telling a company "hey, you can't change something without our approval!" is just plain stupid and arrogant. You're not the legislative branch of PokerStars.

Obviously its on the opposite completly understandable that if someone cuts 30%+ from your yearly paycheck youre angry. The problem is that Stars didn't cut it without a reason (obv again everyone will say now "because they want to make more money"), and thats true. The question is, did they also want to get "rid of some regs or really strong regs"? (Someone wrote that) Because if thats the case they succeeded totally. So whats the strike then in the end good for? Maybe they even calculated what IF some of our SN and SNE players quit our site...

I'm pretty sure they are quite smart and know their math. I do not want to say that I do not support this strike, I just question its point and players position (NO, you do not own PokerStars just because you rake there). Buy stocks, then you own it.

Amaya is ready to negotiate?

Once again, we're reputable in russian community more than 500 players from there including 200 SN and SNE trusted us with that information.
Sorry, honor system can't work here, we wish it could.

Not unless we have a leverage. And thousands of players who create 20-30% of their rake boycotting Stars can be such a leverage especially with amount of their debts. I keep seeing here an opinion that it is too radical etc, but it's not, this is just an idea outside of the box.

Leverage only works when it actually exists. Your report of the last strike used quite a bit of creative math, and then made excuses that the Stars promotions (some worth pennies) got the recs to deposit like lemmings to offset the impact.

Again, I kind of get what you are trying to do, but you have the aura of someone who believes their own rhetoric a bit too much, and your "demands" and declarations seem to be unrealistic.

People will "strike" because for many they have no other real recourse in their mind to express their frustration, but if all that follows are some more creative financial reporting of the impact, with basically no interest from Stars in communicating to you (and likely no seats on the Board of Directors...) then what is the next step? More strikes? If so, make the next one a year long and then see what impact it has and how many followers it has.

These week long things are not much more than "feel good about yourself" projects unless there is some tangible follow up, and so far there has been none. What is the game plan for January 8th - declare you cost Stars 2000% of their profits, putting them at the brink of failure, and then wish everyone good luck at the tables?

I just copy and paste some expected number from the site of strike

The number of 5,000 players comes from our analysis of statistical data. 5,000 active players, including at least 2,500 Supernovas+, generate no less than 15% of pure rake (rake minus rakeback). If we decrease rake by 15%, we cut Amaya’s EBITDA by 25%

Yeah, unfortunately that math is as solid as

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2FWtELWUS0

and the problem with that is that it removes the strength of what can be a potentially effective protest. Hopefully they are more realistic with the theoretical results of this new strike, and realistically the warfare approach moving forward is a bit silly if they keep doing this 3 day/7 day thing. 3 months+ should be the minimum for that extreme approach if they choose to continue not trying to open up a calmer dialogue instead.

Sr Amarillo: HS CAP, 5x SNE

I attended the boycott 1st-7th JAN

Cashed out big

Any details of how this thing has turned out?

i participated in this strike too, but didn't register. urubu111 on stars, 4.5m vpp. (one day i did 2 or 3 flips at hu table, but didn't play anything)

this day fliping, i went at my regular game (plo cash game, small/mid stakes), and the lobby looks exatcly like any other normal day . maybe regs who don't play often, decided play more during strike expecting softer games ? holidays, more fishs taking shots ? just coicidence that I look at peak timing ?

actually , the 1/2 plo lobby , looks had more tables running than in a normal day for that hour . or maybe just the plo small stakes guys didn't contribuite to strike, and cash game NL, sng, mtts, were more empty tables ?

hope it works, but my 1st impression is bad .

Well, i mean no disrespect, but you should read the first post of this thread. It has some info on the strikes you currently confuse(again, no disrespect, english is not my first language)

Sr Amarillo, strike is not over yet, i expect info on financial results no later than on 11th.

I fully support the intentions of a boycott, but- as I've mentioned before- I do tend to agree with many of Monteroy's thoughts on the subject.

Stars intentionally played down the effect on the previous strike, going so far as to have the Hollreiser and Jones puppets repeat their claims of the healthiest three days of the online poker ecosystem since 1872. So I think it's important that you (leaders of the boycott) don't make a similar mistake and get overly optimistic with your figures unless you're quite sure you have a lot of solid evidence.

I'm not knocking your work with the boycott, and I salute your efforts. I just think it's better not to focus too much on the monetary impact unless you are very confident in your figures. I think the important part is the show of support you can gather, although I understand how putting a value on how much it hurts Stars acts as a motivation.

Who specifically has access to that website and what kind of security features are protecting the information that you've accumulated?

The username, IP address and email is exactly what DDOS attackers and scammers can use to cheat or steal players' money. Even assuming that you are entirely legit (which I think you probably are), you have a list of info for exactly the type of players that cheaters and scammers would want. You need to assume that your site has a big bullseye on it.

This here is the gist of it. You demand them rewards for SN+, but you suggest lowering rake for micro. Your entire "plan" is purely delusional, but this bit here is just... man oh man oh man...

Like others have said here, whoever has any "sense of entitlement" towards PS just because they pay x amount of $ in rake, has clearly lost it a bit. Would you please go to your local Moscow loan shark (since this seems to have started from a Russian poker community) and tell him you kinda own him, simply because he's making his living off your back, with his crazy and "unfair" interest rates?

Whenever you have this sort of "proposition", you MUST see it how the other party sees it and construct your arguments accordingly. Why the FK would PS care if 1k, 2k or 10k SN+ players leave their site? Yeah, they'll take a blow short term, but on what planet do you live, exactly? How long do you think it will take for other players to pop up and there's your new SN+ pool of players! Can you really not see how easy it would be for PS to market this and benefit from it medium&long term, if all of a sudden 10k of the best regs leave town? Wake the fk up, really!

By now PS has years of data gathered and I think they've done their math carefully. The conclusion being this sort of "poker ecosystem" cannot be sustained anymore, since the number of new players (i.e. redeposits or new deposits) continues to drop from month to month. So all those SN+ players claiming they bring PS such a s.hitload of $ and are "entitled" to bigger and bigger rewards have simply lost their minds. This may have been true when poker was booming and every poker room wanted to capitalize on it fast. Now it's about the long game and maintaining the fragile and dwindling economy every poker room creates for itself, really. And in this scenario, it's not about the 10k SN+ players, it's about all the others. So I'd say PS would rather make 1M per month for 100 months straight and keep the ball rolling instead of making 2M per month for 10 months and then die (the numbers are right from my ars, but you should get the idea).

I'm not saying PS should not listen to its players and just do whatever, but this particular "strike" and the way you're presenting yourself to PS and to the other players, it's just laughable.

I know where you are coming from and that it might be confusing but this is the actual demands from this strike/boycott:

Of the related demands to your post, demanding a rewards review and regular meetings is reasonable in my opinion.

This boycott/strike is not demanding that you cant change anything without players approval. The first post of this thread is clarifying this strike/boycott, and what players in this strike did sign up for.

Withnail has joined the boycott. He only has one demand.

This is what is currently stated on the website:

"We demand that every game-related change be approved by an online players council. Members of the council will be elected on our site and will represent different stakes and communities.

Recent changes regarding the VIP system have to be cancelled as they weren’t approved by the players."


Also, more generally, the word 'demand' needs to changed to 'request'. Talking in such strident terms simply insures that the protest will be met with strong opposition from Amaya. It's unlikely that a CEO is going to relinguish his authority and submit to what is referred to as demands.

SantaCruz: Im fully aware of the webpage. Its the russian community's discussion point for a future boycott. Not what people sign up for in this thread.

Just like signing up for the December strike/boycott, did not sign you up for this strike/boycott (January 1-7).

There are several participants uniting in this strike/boycott including, wearepokerplayers (WAPP), tiltbook and 2p2 members. They (WAPP/tiltbook) discuss this subject in their forums and have their idea of what is the best course of action. Just like there are several threads and views in 2p2 about what should be done.

We did agree on a common ground for this 1-7 January strike/boycott (also refered to as Step 1).

The signup and participation for this strike/boycott is under the terms outlined in this thread only. Not terms from other sites including the planned future boycott from WAPP.

From WAPP webpage: ''*. Currently only Step 1 is fully agreed on.''

How can there be 2 sets of demands? This is a total mess. How can Amaya agree to demands when the various groups organizing these things can't even agree on what the demands should be? It would be a waste of Amaya's time to agree to this boycott's demands (which should be called requests) if there are still another group's demands out there to be reckoned with.

There are a large number of people who have set themselves up as organizers posting in this thread who I have never heard of before. Most of them are fairly new posters on 2+2. It's impossible for us to figure out who is speaking for whom.

There is no other group out there afaik, if the demands from this thread is meet.

I will neither call it 2 set of demands.


As stated in OP.



The homepage you refer to is WAPP's translated idea/plan/draft of what the steps going forward is IF these demands are not meet.

The main point Im trying to make is that people have signed up for one step/strike/boycott in this thread. Not future action(s) (that might still not be disclosed).

Ansky also made this post earlier:

----

My last comments for today. Part of PokerStars strategy was arguably to rush these changes on people, make lots of confusion by adding unrelated elements and to give the communities little time to react. Plus there is likely some posters in these threads with a non player friendly agenda and there is for sure some (sad) people pure trolling.

PS everything I write is my opinions, I don't necessarily represent others.