The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition - Page 726 - Internet Poker

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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?

Yes

3,522 34.91%

5,626 55.76%

Undecided

941 9.33%

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03-30-2010 , 08:44 PM

#18126

NFuego20

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,295

Quote:

Originally Posted by had 2 say

Let me see . If a mod asks someone to post something for their desires but lacks the courage to do it themselves do you feel used or would a shill do that to please those who ask ? I just find it hard to fathom that anyone in that position would ask someone to do this or that anyone would do that if asked . Am I off base on this point ? But most of us have to stand on our own , right or wrong in our views , agreeing or disagreeing with others points as well . I am just to old school for the muppets . Not even sure I could name any of them .

lol, let's not go overboard here, the muppet picture is a running joke that I've actually become known for at this point and it's always used in sarcasm when words simply can't express how stupid a post is. Frankly in just about every case I've used that picture, somebody has either been trolling or over the top insulting to someone.

I'm relatively certain that nobody lacks the "courage" to use it. There's just no point. We all express ourselves differently.

Also the occurrence I'm referring to happened a long long time ago. The guy may not have even been a mod at that point. Mods have a right to get sick of trolls just as much as I do.

Quote

03-30-2010 , 08:51 PM

#18127

had 2 say

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

Muppetgate ITT

Muppetgate , Good one Jos .
Let me see , were Cookie Monster and Grover muppets ? Did they come before or after Big Bird ? Where is Mr. Rogers when you need him ?

Quote

03-30-2010 , 08:53 PM

#18128

NFuego20

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,295

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketFoot

blah blah blah troll troll troll blah blah blah, and repeat

Quote

03-30-2010 , 09:06 PM

#18129

Weevil99

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 620

Quote:

Originally Posted by PikachuDemolisher

Here is an anecdotal short story by the great Mathematics text book author Ian Stewart based on the premise that it is not been formally proven that all prime numbers must be even.

http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/books/845/crantz.htm

I can't tell if you're trolling or you really believe that. In any case, I'm done.

Quote

03-30-2010 , 09:16 PM

#18130

had 2 say

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 74

Ok I may have made too much of the muppet thing . I may have seen the Muppets when channel surfing but when I heard footsteps I quickly turned the channel . I guess I was at that age then . My daughter liked to watch them .

Quote

03-31-2010 , 01:57 AM

#18131

PikachuDemolisher

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFuego20

lol, let's not go overboard here, the muppet picture is a running joke that I've actually become known for at this point .

No doubt your greatest achievement in life.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 03:12 AM

#18132

BucketFoot

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 500

PokerStars Game #27144826208: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2009/04/16 4:16:08 ET

Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]

*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]

uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)

14 seconds later

PokerStars Game #27144828987: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/04/16 4:16:22 ET

Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]

*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]

icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)

The probability of getting a267 (any order and suit) twice in a row are...

16/52 x 12/51 x 8/50 x 4/49 = .000946 or about .0946%

The odds that he has AcJAh4 both hands

1/48 x 8/47 x 1/46 x 4/45 = .00000685 or .000685%

Multiply these together for the probability of both them happening.

.000685% x .0946% = .0000648% ( about 1 in 5 million)

But it doesn't end there.
Both hands he made the nuts (2nd hand is actually the 2nd nuts, pretty close)
I'm not sure how to calculate the odds of having the nuts or 2nd nuts with AAJ4 but I will make a generous assumption and say its 1/100.

The odds of these 2 hands playing out the way they did are about 1/500,000,000.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 04:03 AM

#18133

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,426

I once saw a board of 2s 3d 9c Ts Kh.

Next hand, the board was 4d 3h As 7c 4h.

The probability of the first board coming up with those 5 exact cards is 1/2,598,960.

The probability of the second board coming up with those 5 exact cards is 1/2,598,960.

The probability of those two boards with those 5 exact cards coming up in consecutive hands? A staggering 1/6,754,593,081,600. Rigged, LDO.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 04:06 AM

#18134

qpw

banned

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by PikachuDemolisher

Well in the realm of logic yes. But the problem for a formal proof comes in the form of adding the stipulation of "greater than 2" to a proof. It leaves the portion undefined. As soon as 2 was both even and prime, the proof becomes impossible.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 04:11 AM

#18135

qpw

banned

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFuego20

lol poor markusgc

LOL, By the way I've had certain unnamed mods request the muppet picture on occasion when it was truly warranted. Not in this thread specifically. It's not my fault "you're a muppet" has become legendary. Just catering to the fans.

Plus it's never used capriciously.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 04:18 AM

#18136

qpw

banned

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weevil99

I can't tell if you're trolling or you really believe that. In any case, I'm done.

I think he's just too stupid to properly understand the story.

Reminds me of the old physicist's proof that all odd numbers are prime:

3, that's prime
5, that's prime
7, that's prime
9, not prime - experimental error
11, that's prime
13, that's prime.

Good enough, all odd numbers are prime.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 05:05 AM

#18137

Pyromantha

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,227

Quote:

Originally Posted by PikachuDemolisher

I enjoyed the story, even though little bit concerned you might not realise it was a complete joke.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 05:15 AM

#18138

Arouet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,432

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketFoot

You did not seriously cherrypick a hand that YOU had posted and had a full discussion on back in April, 2009, did you? Course you did:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketFoot

Just wanted to post this wherever it is relevant.

I have gone back and forth on this subject but just now something happened that really makes me question the randomness of these sites.

I play mostly Omaha hi/low and always thought it funny how I would be dealt the same hand at multiple tables. Surely this will happen in random deals as well, but often times the cards are the same suit or even in the same order.

So i didn't really think anything was too strange about me seeing A267 on 2 different tables simultaneously. That is until i decided to play it aggressively and both times lost a showdown to AhAcJ4. THE ACES WERE THE SAME SUIT EVEN!

I can understand having the same hand at multiple tables but c'mon now what are the chances that within a span of 20 seconds my A267 loses to AAJ4 twice. The funniest part is that both times villain made the nuts.

I know some of you will laugh this off and say a couple hands means nothing but I was really spooked out by what happened, enough so to start an account here, and I legitimately think I may have stumbled upon something.

Next time you are multitabling and you get dealt the same hand try to get to a showdown to see if your opponents show you the same hand. Just a hunch.

PokerStars Game #27144826208: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2009/04/16 4:16:08 ET
Table 'Unukalhai II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: uwilgetbroke ($44.55 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($24.35 in chips)
Seat 3: BruceLi ($14.25 in chips)
Seat 4: peky1 ($7.20 in chips)
Seat 5: sevup ($58.20 in chips)
Seat 6: mondo nutz ($39.05 in chips)
Seat 7: tacksamkt ($9.60 in chips)
Seat 8: Suicidalik ($24 in chips)
Seat 9: singerboy1 ($47.60 in chips)
mondo nutz: posts small blind $0.25
tacksamkt: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
Suicidalik: folds
singerboy1: calls $0.50
uwilgetbroke: calls $0.50
Phunbaba23: calls $0.50
BruceLi: folds
peky1: folds
sevup: folds
mondo nutz: calls $0.25
tacksamkt: raises $9.10 to $9.60 and is all-in
singerboy1: calls $9.10
uwilgetbroke: raises $34.95 to $44.55 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $23.85 and is all-in
mondo nutz: folds
singerboy1: calls $34.95
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
singerboy1: shows [2h 5c 8h 3d] (HI: a pair of Eights)
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)
uwilgetbroke collected $40.40 from side pot-2
Phunbaba23: mucks hand
uwilgetbroke collected $43.15 from side pot-1
tacksamkt: mucks hand
uwilgetbroke collected $37 from main pot
No low hand qualified

PokerStars Game #27144828987: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/04/16 4:16:22 ET
Table 'Gaspra' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: seemsIwin ($139.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Phunbaba23 ($39.65 in chips)
Seat 3: tourbiker ($47.60 in chips)
Seat 4: uwilgetbroke ($201.85 in chips)
Seat 5: dwwg ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 6: 49ers2005 ($184.30 in chips)
Seat 8: Domico ($30.35 in chips)
Seat 9: icecrmking ($20 in chips)
Domico: posts small blind $0.50
icecrmking: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
seemsIwin: folds
Phunbaba23: calls $1
tourbiker: calls $1
uwilgetbroke: folds
dwwg: folds
49ers2005: folds
Domico: calls $0.50
icecrmking: raises $19 to $20 and is all-in
Phunbaba23: calls $19
tourbiker: folds
Domico: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
Phunbaba23: mucks hand
icecrmking collected $39.90 from pot
No low hand qualified

Foolish to think that RNGs are truly random is well said.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 05:21 AM

#18139

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyromantha

I enjoyed the story, even though little bit concerned you might not realise it was a complete joke.

He is so clueless I'd bet he's got hold of the wrong end of the stick one way or another.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 05:27 AM

#18140

Arouet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,432

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

He is so clueless I'd bet he's got hold of the wrong end of the stick one way or another.

No, he's just "levelling". In almost every single post. In a trollish manner. Presumably to show everyone that he's clever enough to level. And I guess we're then supposed to give his rigged theories more credence because he's so clever.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 06:02 AM

#18141

PikachuDemolisher

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 299

You guys seriously dont ***** get it do you? The evidence is right there. When I was a sniper in the seals the first lesson i learned from my sniper sensei was that "the best place to hide is in plain sight." Chris Moneymaker. Making money for who? POKER STARS. They are not even trying to hide it. The WSOP is rigged. How deep does the rabbit hole go?

Quote

03-31-2010 , 06:28 AM

#18142

qpw

banned

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arouet

No, he's just "levelling". In almost every single post. In a trollish manner.

Quote:

Presumably to show everyone that he's clever enough to level.

Except that his so called 'levels' look much more like genuine ignorance to me.

One 'joke' about even prime numbers is just about believable but the way he kept at it, post after post, demonstrates that he really doesn't understand.

Quote:

And I guess we're then supposed to give his rigged theories more credence because he's so clever.

And if anyone believes that it only acts as final confirmation of their irredeemable idiocy.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 06:46 AM

#18143

PikachuDemolisher

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by qpw

I don't think so.

I've seen his tactics before.

A poster makes posts that embarrassingly demonstrate his ignorance of a particular subject and then, to disguise his buffoonery, starts to intersperse his serious posts with jokes in what he hopes is a seamless way in order that he can pass off his earlier demonstrations of ignorance as some kind of humour.

Some fall for it.

Except that his so called 'levels' look much more like genuine ignorance to me.

One 'joke' about even prime numbers is just about believable but the way he kept at it, post after post, demonstrates that he really doesn't understand.

And if anyone believes that it only acts as final confirmation of their irredeemable idiocy.

I have lost a lot of respect for you. I never had any so that's saying a lot.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 06:49 AM

#18144

PikachuDemolisher

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 299

qpw I challenge you to a 4 table HU showdown of 100/200 NL on Party Poker. Just tell me when is good for you.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 08:06 AM

#18145

Username^^

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,786

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Quote

03-31-2010 , 08:26 AM

#18146

jeffreyPL1

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,712

Dealer: flip0382 has two pair, Kings and Tens
Dealer: cristiancgbu has a full house, Nines full of Tens
Dealer: Game #41976417908: cristiancgbu wins pot (2,070) with a full house, Nines full of Tens
Dealer: flip0382 finished the tournament in 6th place
flip0382 [observer]: there are some cheating people in this room
Xanth52: what do you meen?
flip0382 [observer]: i am going to report all of yall to pokerstars for cheating
flip0382 [observer]: yall should find out in a little bitQ

watch out cheaters! :P

Quote

03-31-2010 , 08:27 AM

#18147

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by PikachuDemolisher

I have lost a lot of respect for you. I never had any so that's saying a lot.

LOL.

He certainly seems to have nailed your ass.

Though I'm not 100% sure if he right and you're plain stupid or whether you're indulging in a particularly juvenile type of trolling.

Whatever, it will be good when you get bored and go and play somewhere else.

Quote

03-31-2010 , 08:31 AM

#18148

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1

And this has what to do with rigging?

Quote

03-31-2010 , 08:47 AM

#18149

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketFoot

The probability of getting a267 (any order and suit) twice in a row are...

16/52 x 12/51 x 8/50 x 4/49 = .000946 or about .0946%

The odds that he has AcJAh4 both hands

1/48 x 8/47 x 1/46 x 4/45 = .00000685 or .000685%.

This is entirely wrong. Don't try to do things you don't know how to do. The cards were not the same, a different suit is an ENTIRELY different card and has no relationship at all to a same rank card in another suit. It might as well be the 5 of Spades as the Ace of Clubs. Any two different cards have exactly the same chance to appear, and any four different cards have exactly the same chance to appear, regardless of whether any ranks or suits match. Your example had all four cards different. Bobo had it right and made this point well in his post.