So because the only times you've ever lost super hard were at stakes where most of the players are tough regs, it's clearly a matter of it being rigged against you and not that your opponents are way ahead of the droolers at the $3 SNGs?

You have a sample of ~20 games, which is meaningless. Try just jumping up a level or two, not from $3 to $50, and see how you do. Maybe you can find the equilibrium between buyins and softness. Obviously, but apparently in your sample of ~20 games, you managed to run into superusers every single one of them. Pretty impressive. 1). It's a chimp
2). It's a Segway
3). It was the avatar a poster who recently passed away used. A lot of people starting using it in tribute, and I haven't changed it yet.

Wow, how odd that hands you see make it to showdown tend to be strong, that's so weird since earlier you said everyone stacks off with junk.

Also, I've seen AA v. AA v. KK in two separate televised events. Clearly live tournaments are rigged, it's how Hellmuth has 11 bracelets.

Online chess is rigged.

Yeah, it felt like I was up against 20 Super-Users from the moment I sat down in those $50 SNG... Wish I still had the hand histories, you would really give me props and say "well, I admit thats unsual", or something to that effect...

I agree its not out of the ordinary to see 5 solid hands go all-in to a showdown in a tournament. What IS unusual is when the flop makes 2 sets, a nut straight, and a nut flush... and then you see the same thing happen repeatedly several times during a session...

I don't think we're gonna get anywhere with this "debate"...

I want to believe that online poker is OKAY, and I hope it is.. I play a lot of it, and I enjoy it, and I think the site I play on is run very well and offers a lot of entertainment value in my life. I enjoy playing and appreciate that its there for me,..

today won every all in for two hrs then when the money rolled around went 0 for 6 when I was at least 3 to 1 fav. std. session. I would love it if everyone cashed out all here money at the exact same time.

Can you please share the hand histories? You should be able to email the site concerned and get them to send the histories to you.

Im to the point where my main mission will be to whatever is bad for PokerStar's business.

theres either superusers/mass MAing and datamining/bots/RNG predictability/RNG rigging/or mass whole card spyware going on.

one of those is going one bc something is really really fishy. I know a ton of pros and semi pro players who are in the same boat. Something just isnt right. Im confident that there will be breaking news soon bc people are fed up and its really becoming obvious to a lot of people who have been playing for a long time. They are starting to see the big picture of what is going on and what is fact when it comes to variance (huge myth that keeps growing).

I cant wait till u shills are in prison for conspiracy. Ill laugh me ass off and then go eff ur wife while ur locked up takin' it in the azz from bubba. thats wat u all deserve, lowlife scumbag lying cheats.

^^ +1, except for the prison part, i just wish they would stop.

Does this site not let you request HHs? If it happens so often, start saving your HHs. Mention me on 60 minutes, k thx.

Funny you didn't mention your equity on hands you won...

don't you mean all "there" money at the same time?

There is no point in looking for the hand histories, this happened like 8 months ago,.. Even if I showed you them, you'd just call it variance or bad beats...

It just seemed catastrophically unlucky that runner runner kept happening over and over, on the only day that I decided to move up to a level my bankroll couldnt handle..

I'd just like to forget it and focus on more positive things,...

Should be pretty trivial to find the only $50 SNGs you've played, but whatever. Most likely. We'd also probably point out poor play on your part. Who would be to blame for this, by chance? Superusers? Superbots? Superuserbots? Subaru? Bringing it up repeatedly is actually kind of a bad way to forget, imho.

Honestly, its not worth digging up hand histories to try and explain a few hundred dollars lost in SNG action... I'm just an insignificant cog in the machine, one of millions of regular players that probably spends too much time chasing a dream..

If there ever is an "INTERNET SCANDAL" or something, it would happen at the higher levels.. these people that play for $100,000 pots are the people that would be most outraged if they felt something was up...

And that is how the Ultimate Bet 60 Minutes thing broke, and if anything happens in the future it will be the high stakes players that lead the way...

Until then, I'm gonna grind and have faith in the system... I believe in the basic goodness of all humanity, and that anything that isnt right will be set right...

[QUOTE=I'm not sure if this has been brought up or discussed anywhere but I have not found anything regarding this rigging possibility.
Whenever someone makes a post about how they suspect a site is rigged they are generally mocked and told to produce statistics of their beats. Apparantly from what I have seen most players that do take the time to have their hand histories analyzed find that their hands win/lose against their opponants hands about as often as they should.
My theory is that the cards are randomly drawn but that the flop/turn/river cards are manipulated in such a way as to trap players into getting in good and losing (to even the playing field for the poorer players).
I have been taking some horrible beats over and over and over for a very long time on pokerstars. I play at the lower stakes and often will get in with a drawing type hand preflop if it's cheap because opponants are more likely to pay if it hits. My concern with the RNG randomness is not whether the best preflop hand wins as often as it should, it is whether the best hand when the majority of the chips go in wins as often as it should. If I call $20 in a sng and flop a straight with my 8/9s against someone slowplaying AA and get him to put all his $1500 in the pot, It doesn't concern me who started with the best hand. So when it comes running board pair, then an Ace, the best starting hand wins and the statistics are not skewed but the player that called off all of his chips in horrible shape is rewarded.
Now, here is how stars would set someone up to fail (and programming this to work would be simple) My hand is randomly dealt 8/9, one of my opponants is randomly dealt A/A. For simplicity we will say I'm in the BB and he is small blind. Everyone folds to my opponant who min raises. I call the minraise. The 5 cards for the flop, turn, and river are RANDOMLY pulled by the rng. The cards pulled by the rng are 6, A, 10, 10, 7. Here is where the fix comes in. The software then sorts the 5 random cards in the order they will come up, 6, 10, 7, 10, A, flopping my favorable cards first and saving the cards that will improve my opponants hand for the turn and river. My opponant leads out with a huge bet, I reraise him all-in and he calls. The player has gotten all of his chips in nearly drawing dead, but when the miricle runners come up nothing will appear incorrect to tracking software because the cards were indeed drawn randomly, the order of the cards was what was changed to trap the better player into losing all of his chips.
I just play a lot of sngs and so often see a player hammer a flop, get their chips in waaaaaay ahead, then watch as whatever their opponant needs just comes up again and again. I don't know if there are programs available to analyze this sort of thing, maybe there are? All I know is that whenever someone dismisses the "rigologists" their argument is usually based on how often hand x lost to hand y when they plugged their hand histories into a program, not how often they got the majority of their chips in well ahead and found a way to lose on the turn or river.[/QUOTE]


What software is available that would allow you to make such a study and prove this theory wrong?

He never said anything about these players outplaying him.
He said that they were incredibly lucky.
Or is part of being a good player being able to predict what cards will fall?
I remember I was crushing PLO8 50 for a couple days then tried to move up to PLO8 200.
Within the first 5 hands I was dealt AA35, shoved all-in, and was called by J257.
Needless to say, he made the wheel as well as a flush.
How can you consider calling with trash and sucking out good play?

Or you could use your brain, read between the lines, and realize that there are a lot of people who confuse bad play for bad luck.

As for the cherrypicked hand history that you're so well known for, nobody cares about your anecdotal bs, because that's exactly what it is.

http://twodimes.net/poker/?g=o8&b=&d...%0AJs+2c+5d+7h

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=7207733
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 as ac 3d 5h - js 2c 5d 7h
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Ac 3d 5h 277290 332042 164970 2988 187577 36348 2960 0.701
Js 2c 5d 7h 77758 164970 332042 2988 63764 150162 2960 0.299

You mean somebody hit a 30% shot against you? You don't say.... well that settles it.

Hey IDIOT, 3 out of 10 times in PLO8 a goon makes a stupid move against you, he's going to win! Why am I not shocked that you forget about all the times your hand wins.

These are the paranoid words of a loser. Someone who lacks the intelligence to ever improve his game. Congrats.


Notice the loser is now looking for "a miracle" to happen. Congrats.


There are people out there who are winners [that play good] and have no problem with online poker. You are not one of them.


No one applies "logic" like a riggie. Blue is not blue, it's green


$50 SNG? You are in way above your head. WAY ^
(and they wonder why they lose)


You should quit. Lying that is. You don't play a lot (and are still that big of an idiot). Umpossible.


:shootthisbitchplzty:


:shootthisbitchplzty:


QFT. Every once in a while a riggie has a lucid "moment". Like Simon says on Idol, "This was your moment."

Sorry, I was OBVIOUSLY wrong about this.

Thanks for clearing the air. It is truly decent of many a poster to spend so much time in this thread to set donkeys like me straight.

Backtracking some posters, I see some of you have been helping out the misguided 'riggers' with a great deal of diligence and, might I add, professionalism.

Yep, us shills, we demand logic, evidence, crap that MAKES SENSE, etc etc.

The nerve.

Probably have to code your own utility for it.

Is there any evidence of this happening? Has anyone been approached to be paid to cast votes in these polls?

It's pretty absurd that there is proof provided that a rigtard votes multiple times, and yet the response here is to create fictitious and baseless allegations that falsely attack the integrity of others.

More substantially, however, these issues are not issues of opinion that can be covered up with well written prose. This is an issue of fact: facts that have been proven by the independent audits, the independent regulators, and the openness of the data to independent analysis at any time.

I've tried 3 times now to exit this thread gracefully! Each time, someone throws an insult at me...

I think I've been very fair and balanced in my comments, and I haven't taken personal attacks on anyone or any specific poker site...

I'm gonna take the higher ground here and say..

Goodnight and good luckl!!!

Yes, you demand it quite often, in fact. Repeatedly.

How many posts in this thread have you demanded such logic?
Are you willing to give me the number of posts you have made in this thread? A small, simple number like that should be easy to compute, and would definately lend weight to your cause!

Yep, I demand people bring logic to the discussion when they repeatedly spew nonsense, repeatedly. That much is correct. If the thread wasn't filled with so many brain dead morons and their gimmick accounts, the thread wouldn't exist at all.

Am I willing to give you the number of posts I've made in this thread? Nope. That is highly classified and top secret. That number multiplied by my rate per post = my shill income, and I can't take a chance on anyone knowing this.

Josem....how many posts have you made in this thread?
Can you give me a number?