pooflinger just pm me that he is in fact, none other than..

this guy:

I agree with QPW (not because we're both shills, but because he's right)

If I was a shill I'd be fired for being of absolutely no use. Look over my posts.. If you still think I'm a shill then you're way more ******ed than the average riggie..

You are.. a complete f*cking Idiot!

(that's what the sites told us shills to say )

FQTRT (fixed quote to reflect truth)


** I once went to a Walgreens after work, still dressed in my dealer's uniform, and this lady asked me where the toilet paper was. I told her that I didn't work for Walgreens. She took one look at my uniform and said "Well, you have that uniform on. What was I supposed to think?" OK. Well bitch, look at my name tag. See how my name tag says my name and above it it says Paris Las Vegas?! Do you see all the Eiffel Towers on my BLUE vest?! Have you ever seen a Walgreens employee wearing an apron?! Or with a hand basket in their hands just looking at sht?! Maybe I could be a Walgreens change person.. OK. But you're asking me where the toilet paper is!!? LOL

Stupid mother****ers out there! Geesh

I think the 'tards are just jealous.

After all, we get paid $25 per post for shilling but we have to be able to at least make the semblance of a reasoned argument in some of our posts.

That, alas, is waaay beyond the ability of the 'tards and they are thus forever cut off from a very useful revenue stream.

It's a hard life!

I never said you all are 'shills'.. in fact, I highly doubt most of you are. I was merely adding fuel to the fire, so to speak ><

I make a juicy $27 per post


** Life must be a bitch for for riggies

Sigh, paranoid rigtards: do you folks notice that when one of these threads gets started in the main forum that you get a dozen posts that are EXACTLY the same as "shill" posts here? One downside to this thread is that it creates the impression (to some of you) that most people think poker is rigged, and there are only a few defenders that therefore must be paid.

Take a look through the thread and see for yourselves. Most of them just don't get a kick out of hanging out with paranoid people.

But listen, even if we were all paid by the sites, it shouldn't really matter. The advice given (mixed in among the insults) stands for itself! You're all coming here saying that "there's no way to figure it out! We'll never know! So I choose to believe its rigged!" There has been so much discussion ITT of just how you can figure out if there might be a problem - not to 100% (becuase who in the right mind uses THAT as the minimum standard) but to a high confidence level.

Has even one of you challenged those methods other than just saying: "no, your wrong!" Of course not. If you don't have the mathematical background do you go seek out someone who does? Of course not. Why, because your gut tells you its rigged.

Why am I typing so much here? None of you will read this anyway!

I read it

You know, you could overcome the "shills" by actually providing evidence to prove your point.

I think that when the AP/UB situation arose, there were a series of new accounts (all coincidentally from Costa Rica) which were opened and defended AP/UB. Of course, their protestations counted for little when the evidence was provided clearly and simply.

Words of a true shill... how dare you try to confuse them (formerly me, admittedly.. well, as far as being a riggy goes) with logic!

If the allegations against Stoxpoker are proven, you may not have to wait five years to win your prop.

With a few exceptions, both sides in this thread sound hysterical. I don't think the antiriggies sound any more mature, and they definitely undermine their own arguments with unnecessary insults.

The poll is useless, btw, as I'm sure spadebidder and others can confirm.

I hadn't heard of this. Are you referring to that Stoxtrader thread in NVG? Skimming the first post it seems to be about multiaccounting and collusion, no? What does that have to do with the bet? The bet is not whether people cheat in online poker. That happens all the time!

lol, all I can do is laugh at this point. I think I'm done bothering to talk sense for a while. Only muppet pictures for a while.

It's true. I don't know if its willful blindness or what, but it's like arguing with brick walls. You can repeat arguments til your fingers fall off, they won't process them or respond to them, but return a few days later with the same flawed arguments. Its really an interesting peak into the mind of the truly paranoid.

I've never thought the "Poker is rigged" debate is narrowly confined to just the RnG, or else the thread should be called The great "online RnGs are rigged" debate.

The potential involvement of FTilt is hiding multi-accounting is significant.

The original threads are long. Can someone whose been following them give cliffs?

The bet I made was strictly in regard to the RNG. The industry is far from perfect. There has been cheating in the form of multiaccounting, collusion, bots, etc. I think the bigger sites generally do what they can do combat these things and have a pretty good track record of it, but by no means would I ever claim it doesn't happen.

And yes, it's widely accepted that "rigging" involves the rng. The other discussions are for a different thread.

Wait...did you honestly think there was a single person in this thread that denied that sometimes people try to collude and/or multi-account in online poker?

Seriously?

In fairness, I think he's alleging that FTP helped them along or something. I'm hoping someone can provide cliffs so I don't have to read a 6 page thread!

I read your posts.

I don't know if it is rigged or not. You guys haven't convinced me. You have helped me to make up my mind, so I thank you for that. I have my opinion based on what I have seen. I have decided to reduce my online play by 75% and play live, it is just easier to see the cards and beat weaker players.

I'll say it again, until full hand histories are available, servers and online poker site facilities are open to allowing more than just their selected groups to audit them at a moments notice, there is going to be doubt. I would also like to see groups from all countries watching these sites closely so that there is little or no doubt about the sites integrity. This would also give the online poker world a little more visibility and give players from their own countries a chance to talk to someone who should be on their side if there is a concern. It is a win/win situation, more jobs and more security. I would even be happy to pay a little more tax or tournament fee for more supervision.

I think the biggest problem in gaining trust is the unknown. Josem has taken steps to make himself visible, but I don't think he alone can put much of a dent in this, there needs to be more outreach on this subject. I have given some ideas for them to work with. They don't even want to think about doing something from where I am sitting because they are making tons of money as things stand. Until these sites make a bigger effort, I will not be spending near the amount of money into their business as I could. I will also be telling anyone who asks my opinion that they should be very careful.

I think I am a reasonable person, I am 44 years old, have held a job in the foreclosure prevention and credit counseling industry for a decade. Have scored high on IQ tests, am in a committed relationship with a very cute little girl I met 8 years ago. I have lived, surfed, fist fought, drank, sang, played guitar in San Diego my whole life, was in and out of bands in my 20's and 30's and was nominated for a San Diego Music award in the late 90's for best Alternative Music. I like people and specifically enjoy the challenge of games where there is heavy interaction with people. I also regularly contribute to the poker and casino industry because I enjoy a little gamble in my blood stream (my drug of choice) and have friends who work in the brick and mortar.

Ok...so there is more info about me. The reason why I put that up there is because I am sure that your view of "DonkoTheClown" is nowhere near reality and because who I have just described is probably close the center of the online poker sites demographic. If I am concerned about the integrity of online poker, the industry is missing something. Or they just don't care, or they are hiding something. I don't know...I cant see, it is all shrouded in mystery for me...

link to thread?

So change the thread title. People new to 2+2 and this thread don't view the term "rigged" so narrowly.

(No, I don't think any of the things you seem to think I thought. )

I recommend reading the whole thread, it's not too long. I'm not alleging anything except that it's worth reading.

Donko, thanks for sharing. Obviously there are real people behind all of these accounts. I'm all for transparency, and am happy to share similar details about myself if people care. I've been pretty straightforward about that and have already shared that I'm a former auditor and have also shared my results graphs showing that I have played a lot of hands online.

As for some of the things you seek though, I think you're just going to have to accept that the sites can't make everyone happy. They're never going to release all hand histories including hole card information, nor should they. Spade has already explained why this isn't necessary, but if you aren't going to buy into his argument, there's not much more anyone can do.

As for the regulation situation, it's not the sites' faults that the US government has taken a completely backwards approach to gambling which amounts to an attempt at prohibition. Until they reverse their course on that front, we're not going to see oversight coming from this country. That however doesn't make sites less credible, as the major ones are still regulated in real places with real laws.

Your approach, to play more live because of your concerns, is the right one in your situation. But the sites have no realistic way of retaining a person who sees things the way you do, and would be wasting resources to try. To be honest up until this point you've flip flopped so many times and have gone from reasonable to unreasonable and back so many times it's hard to even take you seriously. I realize it's usually from the emotion of the games, but it still hurts credibility.