This isnt about one day Spade, this is about the last 10 years of playing live and 4 years playing online. Looking at my results and looking at the situations I am seeing, there is clearly something to be concerned about.

It is easy for me, I will just put some gas in my vehicle and go to the local card room. Lots of easy action there. This is much easier than fighting for hours to get deep in a tournament only to be busted the first or second time I am all in the whole tournament on a coin flip or much better. If I am not allowed to win in those situations near the rate of expectation, then why waste my time? I am alleging that there is some manipulation in this area of the tournaments. I have seen enough to come to a conclusion for myself that it is not safe or +EV for me to play online. I am going to spend my money in soft games around town and try to satellite into big live events. That is my plan.

You have hit this one right on the head. This is my plan. See my email to Spade.

I agree. Just look at what happened with Vegas. They went bust in no time when they offered games in which players were losing in the long run.

Oh, wait...

No Dude, I am coming to some real clarity on my direction, I am making money live in soft games, why waste my time on a game that might be rigged.

I apologize for wasting your time, I will not waste any more of it. Good luck and skill to you and the true players.

F-Off to the shills.

Thanks and signing off for good.

You were the one copying posts of random guys who start by saying

"Take it from a software engineer who has worked on the software programs that pokerstars uses."

without ever proving who he is or that he actually worked there.

While your faith led you to consider believing him, recognize the pattern of behavior you are demonstrating. You are believing a person because you want to believe even though he offers zero reason to believe him.

Truth is truth, not what you want to believe is truth.



I am still not decided on whether the "nice shills" treating riggies with respect is actually even the productive approach.

The reality is the vast majority of riggies want to be riggies (whether to vent or feel important or troll), and the few that may want to break away from it will only be able to do that with a lot of dedication and hard work, because to be blunt you guys aint naturally gifted at poker.

If you tried your best to do all the things I suggested with improving your game then good for you for that effort. However, if you dig back in the past you will also see that I and others flat out told you playing live was clearly the best option for you, because you can beat live (assuming you are truthful about that), while you cannot beat the microstakes online.

The reality of your situation is that the odds you were going to become a great player online were quite slim, so when that became apparent going back to live was completely the correct choice for you and if being a part time riggie for online poker makes you happy - go for it. Lots of live players are online riggies.


If you want to make this a cause then go for it. Again, I will give you the blunt reality of your situation if you do it.

The marketplace will either care or not care (you can guess which it will likely be).

When the marketplace does not care, then you can choose whether you want to keep fighting for something that is unimportant to the market.

An example of the market caring was Stars pricing of DoNs. The rake was too high and there was a very good thread highlighting this. Know what happened - the rakes went down, because the marketplace cared.


You can beat live, but cannot beat online. Live games are known to be considerably weaker than online for reasons that have been discussed a million times.

Lots fall in that skill range.

You should not play online (unless for fun) because you are not a winning player online. Simple. If believing you are a target of a conspiracy makes you feel better about this - cool go for it.

You have the right to create your own reality, so if you want to say


No Dude, I am coming to some real clarity on my direction, I am making money live in soft games, why waste my time on a game that might be rigged.


instead of

No Dude, I am coming to some real clarity on my direction, I am making money live in soft games, why waste my time on a game I cannot beat.


then good for you if THAT is what you needed to do to make +EV choices.



The odds of this happening are 0%. Your behavior is that easy to predict.


All the best.

This. I raise the white flag. Complete and utter defeat. There is no getting through to these people. It is completely and utterly impossible. I have tried. And tried. And tried. I give up. Congrats Donko, you beat me!

Monteroy, QPW, I apologize for doubting you. Insults, no insults, the results are the same. Flame on. You won't hear any more objection from me.

lol wow Donko, absolutely pathetic

I didn't just mean poker books by the way, i was implying that you should read something of worth rather than random lies and opinions written by morons. Well educated people with high IQs may believe that onlike poker is rigged but they wouldn't be stupid enough to take at face value the kind of rubbish you just quoted.

Show us with your hand histories!
Show us with your hand histories!
Show us with your hand histories!
Show us with your hand histories!

lime green text on grey background? oh no you didn't...

Yeah, I was kind of being diplomatic. Frankly, I thought you nice shills were nuts (except spade when talking about stats - some of those lessons were interesting).

Just recognize the riggies for what they are and what their faith based needs represent. Makes reacting easier as their behavior is really quite simplistic. They play a level 0 game.


On a completely different note, check out this systemic effect

http://www.patspapers.com/blog/item/...l_hockey_game/

In a sense this proves that humans are rigged...

I love this part- ummm....,random distribution does this too.

This.

Very sad IMO.

So who would be responsible for investigating this massive crime??

Man I can not believe you people. Talk about naive.

The first point I'd like to make is these sites are not regulated. No one is watching them or checking up on them. Walk into a casino and look around some time. All those cameras all the security. It's there to watch you but it's there more to watch the employees. Why? Because they know if someone thinks they can cheat and get away with it they will. These sites know they can cheat and get away with it, knowing human nature I find it hard to believe they don't.
Now to me the question is what do they do? Well first of all how do they make money? There are as far as I can see two ways. The buy ins and using the money we send them for whatever investments they chose to make. As far as the buy ins go the more games that are played, the more people that buy in the more money they make. Hence the bigger hands, more suck outs, more people getting taken out more people buying back in. As for the money we send them how many people actually make withdrawals. All that money just gets moved from account to account within the site. They can do whatever they please with it, very little of it gets returned to the players. Therefore the more people that go bust and send them money the better for the site. The problem in the last few months is just like the rest of us a lot of there investments probably went south and therefore they have to make more money.
My point here is a player isn't getting cheated, all the players are getting cheated. How many times have you seen multiple pocket pairs come up in the same hand? How many times have you seen pocket kings get beat by pocket aces? Or queens beat by kings and so on? If you haven't noticed it happens a lot you haven't been paying attention. All the lucky suck outs, all the set ups. It all benefits the site.
The problem with all of this is the cards are being manipulated and therefore everything you know about playing hold em is out the window. It's all about luck, you might as well play slots.

Hell, you can say you are an investigator and you know it is rigged and riggies will believe you.


Tell you what, if that guy comes out with a real name and real documentation and a detailed verifiable accounting of how he rigged the program, I will be the first to contribute to a fund to hire lawyers to sue, and I am sure many others will follow.

As well, the same stats freaks here that revealed the UB/AP scandals will be all over the data once they have this magic key as to how the rig is mystically hidden.


That's the problem with these fake riggie claims - if any were real and were verifiable then the "shills" and others would stampede past those riggie dumbasses on their way to destroying the rooms behind such crimes.

Ironic in a way.

4 sentences in and you're already wrong, nicely done.

He's another first-post genius (or fake).


A lot more than you think. In the past few months there have been several big news stories about money processors sending millions of dollars a month out to players, and those were just examples. But this is like every other statement in your post.

No, you're wrong.

Links have been posted in this thread repeatedly to the various regulators.

No, you're wrong.

This is a reflection of your own lack of integrity and decency, not a reflection on the integrity of online poker.

But they can't get away with it - as has been repeatedly demonstrated in this very industry.
No, you're wrong.

Bigger hands causes there to be less rake.

We've discussed that in the last dozen pages or so.

Your ignorance on this issue is a problem for you to correct, not a reflection on the integrity of online poker.
Many people do, as this whole forum proves.
No they can't do what they please - the reputable regulators require that the money is held in a designated trust account.
No, you're just wrong as described above.
What evidence do you have of this?

You just appear to be a habitual liar here who just makes stuff up with some sort of bizarre compulsive problem.
How many times should multiple pocket pairs come up? How often does it happen?

Also, this seems to be a poor adaption of the now discredited action flops theory, so this is probably just another falsehood in a litany of falsehoods.

Are you deliberately lying? Or are you ignorant?

One or the other must be true.
No, you're just wrong, as this entire forum proves.

What about the cheating that goes on by other players? What do the regulators enforce on them? Do they watch over the rogue employee's too? oops...

What does the NGC do about colluders exactly?

Darnit I knew I couldn't trust live poker.

"Cryptographically secure" means that the RNG is so completely random that even a large amount of computer analysis cannot predict or detect patterns in the output, a fact that has been validated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

The above is a copy and paste off a poker website. How do you uderstand the above. Is the Large amount, in terms of population, or along the lines of How many? Just curious. And No, for the record, I dont think it's rigged

It sounds like it is referring to a pseudo random number generator, which the major credible sites (ie, PokerStars and Full Tilt) do not use.

To add on: By definition, a pseudo-random number generator is not truly random. Theoretically, if you have enough data on its output, you might be able to figure out the formula and predict future cards. That's probably not plausible with current technology though, I don't know.

Well I got it off a Cake Poker Network site, not Cake Poker. But all Cake skins have to use the same, correct? I mean it makes sense.