The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
04-16-2020
, 04:19 AM
04-16-2020
, 01:13 PM
I guess in your world everyone you dislike would hang for whatever you accused them of. Go to sleep and more importantly stop playing poker if it bothers you so much.
Then again keep digging that hole and you may resolve the flat earth thing when you pop out the other side.
Don't bother with a childish reply because I aint gonna have a debate with you.
04-16-2020
, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Which one? A quick look at Gatsby's posting history in threads that have nothing to do with online poker rigging (or even online poker) demonstrate the exact same approach and thinking as his posts here. Every one of his posts is literally as if he sneezes out stuff, so is he portraying that character for over 1,000 posts in a variety of topics for a long term troll routine to mimic the exact ways many lower level humans actually think and behave?
<snip>
He is literally the dimwitted cartoon character as his posts would indicate. Lot of you guys seem to overestimate how bright much of humanity is at times, by assuming they must be faking to appear as stupid as they post, when in reality most of them are exactly as they seem
.
<snip>
He is literally the dimwitted cartoon character as his posts would indicate. Lot of you guys seem to overestimate how bright much of humanity is at times, by assuming they must be faking to appear as stupid as they post, when in reality most of them are exactly as they seem
.
I'm pretty sure I remember him being a more normal poster in past years. Maybe I'm wrong, and this is the way he's always been. I don't think so, but it's possible. But I'm not especially concerned. Even if he isn't a fake riggie troll, there's no point interacting with him for any purpose other than trading insults, so I'll leave that for those who enjoy it more than I do.
04-16-2020
, 04:55 PM
Quote:
And I'm sure that at the time, there were people accusing these poker sites of cheating and they were laughed at whatever particular message boards they were posting that at the time..only to be proven right.
I also found this:
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/st...3752500&page=1
I read the article which contradicts a lot of what you and other "anti-riggie" for lack of a better term, people said about the incident.
I thought..having read your post that a mathematical genius was playing online and was able to decipher that there was cheating. Basically this article points out that there was a snitch at Absolute and that the owner of this site made too many unlikely poker plays that were egregious. Basically that is how they got caught.
I want to see evidence that the poker community can "Police" the RNG of internet poker companies.
I also found this:
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/st...3752500&page=1
I read the article which contradicts a lot of what you and other "anti-riggie" for lack of a better term, people said about the incident.
I thought..having read your post that a mathematical genius was playing online and was able to decipher that there was cheating. Basically this article points out that there was a snitch at Absolute and that the owner of this site made too many unlikely poker plays that were egregious. Basically that is how they got caught.
I want to see evidence that the poker community can "Police" the RNG of internet poker companies.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...-stolen-99247/
The original post was edited to include a somehwat lengthy summary of the events, but if you scroll down, you can see the original post, and then the replies. You'll notice some doubters in the first few dozen posts, but that dies off quickly once evidence comes forward.
Here are some important points from the summary:
Quote:
Johnson was suspicious of POTRIPPER’s play. He contacted Absolute Poker, asked for the play be investigated and that the tournament hand history be sent to him. Absolute Poker responded that they’d looked into his play and could not find anything suspicious. They emailed Johnson the hand history in an encrypted Microsoft Excel file. Since it would be tiresome to go through the Excel file and because Absolute Poker had apparently investigated the play, Johnson didn’t examine things any closer for the time being.
In September of 2007, this thread was posted in the high stakes limit forum on 2+2 alleging suspicious play in the $150/$300 limit games on Absolute Poker. There were three players--STEAMROLLER, GREYCAT and DOUBLEDRAG--who despite playing what can be defined mathematically as a losing strategy, were crushing the games. Suspicious posters on 2+2 started examining hands that they had played against these three opponents. In analyzing the hands they found that the three suspicious accounts played most of their hands preflop and then were very aggressive postflop. The most suspicious play generally came on the river (the final betting round,) where seemingly every single time an opponent of the named accounts bluffed, they would be called down lightly or they would be raised and forced to fold. Every single time.
Once the data was compiled, it was thoroughly analyzed both on a hand by hand basis and by looking at the data as a whole. The following scatter plot was created by 2+2 poster Nat Arem. In the scatter plot VPIP stands for the percentage of hands in which a player put non-blind money into the pot preflop.
In September of 2007, this thread was posted in the high stakes limit forum on 2+2 alleging suspicious play in the $150/$300 limit games on Absolute Poker. There were three players--STEAMROLLER, GREYCAT and DOUBLEDRAG--who despite playing what can be defined mathematically as a losing strategy, were crushing the games. Suspicious posters on 2+2 started examining hands that they had played against these three opponents. In analyzing the hands they found that the three suspicious accounts played most of their hands preflop and then were very aggressive postflop. The most suspicious play generally came on the river (the final betting round,) where seemingly every single time an opponent of the named accounts bluffed, they would be called down lightly or they would be raised and forced to fold. Every single time.
Once the data was compiled, it was thoroughly analyzed both on a hand by hand basis and by looking at the data as a whole. The following scatter plot was created by 2+2 poster Nat Arem. In the scatter plot VPIP stands for the percentage of hands in which a player put non-blind money into the pot preflop.
Quote:
No, the complete hand histories made the cheating easier to understand but just compiling users hole card data was enough to prove there was cheating.
No, you're wrong. Read the OP of this thread.
It's a lot of text, I know, so I'll just grab the relevant bits and post them here:
Those charts were both made by simply combining user hand histories and comparing winrates to VPIP, and they showed that the superusers were winning 10 and 15 standard deviations above the mean in the respective pictures. There's literally no way anyone could win that much without cheating, and it is stone cold proof. The first chart was made within 24 hours of hands being shared.
No, you're wrong. Read the OP of this thread.
It's a lot of text, I know, so I'll just grab the relevant bits and post them here:
Those charts were both made by simply combining user hand histories and comparing winrates to VPIP, and they showed that the superusers were winning 10 and 15 standard deviations above the mean in the respective pictures. There's literally no way anyone could win that much without cheating, and it is stone cold proof. The first chart was made within 24 hours of hands being shared.
Just one example of players policing the game. We've also seen many individual botters, botting rings, and collusion rings brought to light by players.
04-16-2020
, 05:55 PM
04-16-2020
, 05:58 PM
Quote:
I thought..having read your post that a mathematical genius was playing online and was able to decipher that there was cheating. Basically this article points out that there was a snitch at Absolute and that the owner of this site made too many unlikely poker plays that were egregious. Basically that is how they got caught.
To begin with:
1) I am not a mathematical genius. I don't even have any formal mathematical training after high school.
2) The revelation of the administrative hand histories (the "snitch at Absolute"*) did not prove the cheating was happening. That didn't come until after I proved the cheating was taking place.
Here's the order of events. This is from my memory, and relates to stuff ~13 years ago. If you care about the truth of the matter (I don't think you do, tbh) you can go through and look at the archives of this website and verify/correct any of this:
a) cheating took place (various events, various tournaments, cash and tournaments)
b) a tournament hand history was sent to one of the victims. The victim didn't understand the hand history file because it was a mess and jumble.
c) players shared suspicions and data on 2p2
d) AP denied cheating
e) I did maths to prove cheating, made graphs
f) AP admitted cheating
g) hand history file is decrypted
h) hand history is converted into a YouTube video to show the cheating happening
*To this day, I do not believe there was a "snitch" in the way that is publicly understood. Rather, they sent out these administrative hand history files fairly frequently, but because they were in a jumbled mess, no one had ever understood what was in those hand history files.
Quote:
I want to see evidence that the poker community can "Police" the RNG of internet poker companies.
*
Edit/MH: e) Josem's graphs post: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...4&postcount=68
Graphs:
Last edited by Mike Haven; 04-17-2020 at 04:45 AM.
04-16-2020
, 07:07 PM
I dont consider myself a wining player as Im still at 10z (lol micros again) but the game is very very different. That friend of mine already warned me last summer and I could not believe it as I didnt play for 6 years, but he was right so, anti-poker here we go ...
04-16-2020
, 07:14 PM
Im not giving the whole strategy to you but on some spots I limp AA and I WILL FOLD a raise from certain types of player PRE FLOP ... How about that ??
04-16-2020
, 07:41 PM
Quote:
As I said its best to fly under the radar with this or no cash out for me ... The only thing people sell is the strategies that dont make any money, so why would I sell it ? Im not giving the whole strategy to you but on some spots I limp AA and I WILL FOLD a raise from certain types of player PRE FLOP ... How about that ??
Im not giving the whole strategy to you but on some spots I limp AA and I WILL FOLD a raise from certain types of player PRE FLOP ... How about that ??