What about me? I was successful high limit cash game player in the 90s and 00s, and have won over $4M lifetime doing non poker things in the casino. Also, two WSOP final tables, one in a $5K buy in event.

I agree that poker players as a rule have this warrior mentality, but it's not a good idea to overestimate your game while underestimating your opposition's. Most poker "pros" do that. i'm not going to go into particular detail, but any time I saw a big pot, I looked at the hand history. I just saw too much for me not to turn on the "inquiry" light. Again, not just the beats I took, but beats others took and the hands that got turned over.

I think pokernv0000's ability isn't really at issue here. I will say this, i've lost a sick number of pots with .90 or more EV. A couple of the plays the opposition made were just bad. That you can say is unlucky, and we play the next hand, no problem. But..when irrational play gets there, then I think a closer look is necessary. In both cases, he got the money in good against questionable (at best) play. If he's got a half dozen more like those two, then its fair to say there may be a problem with site integrity.

But they’re all seasoned pros that have been playing profesionally for over 20 years, the app must be rigged against them and only them obviously.

FWIW, i won 150bi in March, and it was never a matter of "oh look at this one hand I got so unlucky!" that triggered my worry. It was simply a matter of new players running up stacks night after night with strategies that for 15 years we know are losing at massive rates. These same players (at least 20 that I am thinking of) seem to have now all gone back to expected outcomes. In general that was the only time I have ever been the least bit concerned about the security of games on WSOP, and certainly am not at the moment.

Also did they change the max number of tables from 10 to 9 in the last 24 hours? If so that would be a real shame considering the big spike in traffic the last 3 weeks or so.

I played online on stars till black friday Then i switched to live poker plo. I remember I used to have massive up n down swings, its normal. I never said im good nor a big winning player but i do make a living playing plo live for at least 8 years doing nothing else.
Ok lets say I'm a big fish, i don’t care whatever.

Im really curious if you know anyone beating the plo-hi 6 max games on Pokerbros? Is there anyone who knows anyone thats consistently beating the plo hi games in there legitimately with straight hard wok grinding? Im not even worried about team play cheaters as much as im convinced that the site software is programed to rob better hands. Its a total Programed setup.
I get into situations all-in that im literally counting the money in my head saying; “ok, finally a ****ing break”, then i get robbed over and over again. The only key biggest significant pot i ever won when i was 10% favorite to win, ran it Once and won, bingo!

How is one of the smallest unions, on the PPPoker app getting daily prizepools larger than Pokerstars did in 2010?

When the entire world was allowed to play online poker, the world's biggest poker website (Pokerstars) was not achieving the prizepools that a SMALL union within a poker app (which surely has a fraction of the playerbase Pokerstars had, before Black Friday) is currently achieving. Yes, COVID-19 has caused a recent surge in the popularity of online poker, but this does not account for the numbers some of these tournaments are getting.

How can this same club, who's achieving 100k guarantees daily with their MTTs, only have 20-30 active players on their cash tables at any one time? There's a maximum of 3-4 active tables for each limit, which often aren't full - yet 500+ people are playing MTTs everyday...To put this into context, MTTs are equalling Pokerstars' player base, yet their cash games are not even 1/100th of the size. How does that make sense?

When it's as easy as using a VPN on your computer and simultaneously playing on your phone at the same table, should you not start questioning the legitimacy of the cash games on this app? When the same players are sitting next to each other, for 20 hour sessions everyday, can we not clearly affirm that there's a high % of bots controlling these cash games?

I'm not going to go off on a tangent, but simply posting this thread to pose the question and to see if others are experiencing the same thing on this app.

Is there anyone that can show a winning graph strictly from cash games (higher than micros)? I'm up over 5 figures on MTTs but can't seem to book consistent wins on cash, to the point where I refuse to play as it seems very suspect. As I moved up in stakes - the plays would become increasingly more shady, for example: often 3 handed one player would be sitting out (forfeighting $4 big blind) to induce action, whilst the 2nd player can do no wrong - flatting 75o to a 4 bet and calling 3 barrels, flatting AK, KK, AA pre 100% of the time, almost NEVER calling all-in pre flop.

It is my strong belief that there are numerous bot rings playing the smaller-mid stakes cash games and there is quite possibly superusers playing the highest stakes. It might simply be an extremely shady union / club, or it could be something prelevant throughout the entire application.

Discuss.

Tl;dr, playing on PPPoker? Avoid cash games like the plague (MTTs are fine)

So are the team play cheaters colluding to get it in as bad as possible? Your concern of collusion on a poker app is fair but who is benefiting from set up hands?

Same ole swan song that the ignorant like to lay on people proposing possible rigging. Winning is just as memorable as losing. Too bad I have very few winning moments as I’m getting rivered constantly.

This has happened MULTIPLE times IE well over 100 in the last month. Outdrawn on the river when both myself and opponent are all in.

FYI WSOP support has still failed to send me the hand histories I requested. Their policy of one history a month is absurd and shady.

What are you even talking about? On both of those hands I was 80 percent or better. How does someone catching a lucky river make me a subpar player? I put all my chips in when I was way ahead. Please explain as I’m very curious.

Perhaps the reason you didn’t see any issue on ACR despite them blatantly cheating is because you just aren’t very bright. Or as you like you said “Maybe you aren’t as bright as you think you are”

I was surprised when I checked out this thread what the Polls show. Nearly 45% of Twoplustwo users think the sites are rigged or at least possible rigged. A very telling number. Especially when you tend to get lambasted on here for believing that online is rigged.

So I was running into a terrible time on Bodog where it seemed like I just couldn't win. 2 outers on the river, I'd have Kings vs Aces etc.

I talk to one of my friends at work who is without a doubt a PHENOMENAL poker player, both live and online. 23 year old kid who has already won 20K playing poker this year. He finished top 50 in some big 5000+ Pokerstars tournaments. And his BB/hr playing 1/2 has got to be at least 30. He'd play 2/5 or 5/10 but just doesn't have the bankroll.

Anyways, I tell him of my problems online and how I just can't win. I dare to use the "rigged" word. He immediately starts laughing at me. He says it's not rigged and only idiots think it's rigged. it's just variance. Why does he win so much online?

One day his computer breaks down and he texts me that he is in the mood to play. I invite him to come over and maybe we share a few tables on Bodog. So he comes over and we each take 2 tables (4 table max). We play low stakes. He's going to cash settle with me.

After a night where he loses with A-Q suited against A-K, 5 different times , gets 2 outed on the river a few times, loses with a King high flush to an Ace high flush twice. All over a course of just a few hours.

He turns to me and says:

"How can you play on that shitty site, it's probably rigged"

I got a good laugh.

But that's not even close to what the poll shows.

First of all, undecided doesn't mean "at least possible rigged". But leaving that aside, much more importantly, it's not "Nearly 45% of Twoplustwo users". It's nearly 45% of 2+2ers who see this thread, decide to read it, and then choose to respond to the poll. If you think the poll is a good sampling of our members, you're quite mistaken.

Ok, not exactly sure what you mean by that. Perhaps you could explain.

And if you think ignoring the thousands and thousands of live -only poker players that tried online, gave up and will never ever play online again, nor visit the internet gaming area on twoplustwo is a "good sampling of the numbers", you're even more mistaken.

IDK, maybe I'm splitting hairs a bit here. When I read "at least possible rigged", that implies to me that they're leaning that way, but giving it more thought, that's not entirely accurate. I withdraw my objection.

I'm not ignoring anyone, because I'm not making any assumptions based on an extremely unscientific poll. You are.

So it sounds like we can agree - nearly 45% of 2+2ers who see this thread, decide to read it, and then choose to respond to the poll, think the sites are rigged or at least possible rigged.

Maybe we won't agree on what that means. I would suggest it means very little.

Umm..........ok

I would agree that it means very little if it was a poll of say, 10 people. Or maybe 100. Or 500. Not enough sample size. But nearly 10,000 !!! ???

And yes. I do think twoplustwo posters are more likely to come from a younger, more studious group of people who understand statistics to at least some degree.

People who think online poker is rigged love to post about it. People who have no issue or reason to think it's rigged don't even find this thread, let alone post in it.

Of course that's not really an absolutism, but I'm very confident it's correct enough that I'd expect this poll to be heavily skewed. 45% of all 2+2ers believing online poker is rigged, or are undecided? From what I've seen in my 14 years experience here, I'd find that pretty shocking.

I read you post. I got a good laugh.

He is so PHENOMENAL that he is up 20K thia year, (not very impressive) amd even with being up 20K he cannot afford the nose bleed stakes of 2/5?

4000 big blinds....

Stop. Everything else you wrote is not even worth reading after that nonsense.

If you believe that garbage that you wrote, then it is proof that you're pretty clueless about poker and that's why you "just couldn't win".

easily the most convincing post in this whole thread well played I am cashing out right now

Exactly! We are all just a bunch of rigtards. I don’t appreciate my posts being buried in here like I’m some kind of conspiracy theory loon. Now when someone goes to the WSOP thread they will think all is fine and dandy. Bobo asked for proof. He apparently ignored the part where WSOP support refuses to send me hand histories in text format.

What?! You should have run for political office.

So lemme get this straight. A poll which serves only one function which is to gauge someone’s opinion on something isn’t representative of 2+2 users even though the poll can only be taken by 2+2 users and a large percentage of said users participated.

And undecided by definition would mean that part of their thought process has considered it being rigged at one point or another.

We get it dude you work for a forum that derives most of its income from online poker. Don’t worry people will still deposit and lose even though it may be rigged.

Just understand that if it turns out that WSOP.com is rigged that’s a pretty crappy thing To bury peoples warnings in a tin foil hat thread.

You’re probably laughing going haha that won’t ever happen. Don’t underestimate me. I’ve successfully litigated far more complex issues than a random poker site hiding out in some banana republic using an in house RNG from the 90’s.

Caesars probably isn’t even aware of all
of the complaints about 888/Wsop.com.

PokerNV0000 is gonna blow the lid off the rigging once and for all, I just wanna say I was here when it happened <3

hehe

There are over half a million members here. Poker players ignore this trash.

Well, you are...and a very whiny one as well.

Good thing then that there are more reliable methods to show if a site is rigged or not. Whiny, baseless accusations are def. not one of these methods.

You really think that if they found evidence of a rigged deal, someone would go: Wait a minute, this whiny ***** from the 2+2 forums was right!?....Nah, not gonna happen.

Haha, yes.

Nobody will do that, everyone agrees that you just a whiny *****.

Whoa, watch out we got a badass over here.

I'm curious, what were these complex issues? Let me guess: Top secret, classified stuff?

I think some people have figured out how to actually know what the board is going to be before it comes out on ACR.

Di you litigate on evidence, that others found for you, or was it on feelz?

Your first two sentences were correct and then downhill from there. The reason rigtard posts get out here is so threads with actually issues can be navigated easily enough without a mountain of rigtard posts.

If you did some deep investigation, you'll find that people that post actual evidence to claims don't have posts move to the tin foil hat thread. It's almost like where in litigating q case you need concrete evidence the same goes for making claims of wrongdoing here. The cases that have no proof and cannot be argued get sent to the trash bin. Your baseless claims are in the poker trashbin. Where they belong

Poker players have a "one time" card. Some of them ate bullies and steal the cards from other players.

I've been reading over the thread (not everything mind you, it's just too long) but I do find there is plenty of vitriol coming from both sides. The yes/no it's rigged department.

Vitriol coming from the rigged crowd I can understand. It's frustrating to take an endless string of bad beats and lose money.

No idea why the anti-rigged posters are so angry.

Good, it's important to laugh in these troubling times.

Well no, if you're a pro player playing in the world series of poker it's not. When you're an amateur player on pace to make 100K per year, it's not bad at all and would certainly put him in the top 5% of all recreational players.

He doesn't have a BANKROLL of 20K, he has generated a net income of 20K. Those are 2 very different things. He's a young guy with thousands in student debt and lives on his own in a big city. Not everyone lives at home in their parents' basements.



Except I've won thousands the past 2 years playing live poker.

The whole thread was meant to be tongue and cheek but your reply was so foolish I just had to say something.

PS your reading comprehension skills are atrocious.